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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Acoustics / June 2004Norris Prizes for Seraph Piano Compositions
Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described in the links below: http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=d3d647a9.0406082151.74b3c7e4@posting.goog le.com http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=20040422192417.24625.00000224@mb-m01.aol.com http://mathforum.org/discuss/sci.math/mbig/557148/557148 Prizewinning works will be performed in a public concert when ten prizes have been awarded. Compositions which would require design modifications will be considered until development of the instrument has being completed. Entries, written in a suitable music notation, should be submitted to apollonicon@aol.com . >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Entries, written in a suitable music notation, should be submitted to >apollonicon@aol.com . I skimmed a bit of this. Somewhere there's a recording of a special version Stravinsky wrote of Les Noches for an ensemble of electromechanical auto-repeating pianos. I just couldn't see a repeating hammer-driven mechanism sounding any different, certainly not sounding any more voice- or wind-like than a cymbalom. Now, an e-bow-based mechanism, THAT could be the start of something.  SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ >>Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, >>awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >or wind-like than a cymbalom. Now, an e-bow-based mechanism, THAT could >be the start of something. My interest is in promoting the composition of new music. Auto-repeating pianos and cymbaloms cannot repeat notes quite fast enough to produce a perceived continuous tone (which requires about 25 Hz repeat rate). Seraph pianos are capable of dynamic variation and vibrato within continuous tones, and can produce perceived smooth slides using the sixth-tone feature. Piano transcriptions of the output of a spectral analyser can produce voice effects quite easily - compositions for orchestra, which recognisably simulate speech when performed correctly, have been written using similar techniques. > >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, > >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > or wind-like than a cymbalom. Now, an e-bow-based mechanism, THAT could > be the start of something. My interest is in promoting the composition and performance of new music. Auto-repeating pianos and cymbaloms cannot repeat notes quite fast enough to produce a perceived continuous tone (which requires about 25 Hz repeat rate). Seraph pianos are capable of dynamic variation and vibrato within continuous tones, and smooth slides can be performed using the sixth-tone feature. The output of a spectral analyser can quite easily be used to generate Seraph piano transcriptions of vocal effects - compositions for orchestra, which recognisably simulate speech when performed correctly, have been written using similar techniques. >> >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, >> >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >speech when performed correctly, have been written using similar >techniques. Hmmm, let us know when you've got a working model in the real world. I for one am more interested in real-world music than hypotheses. I still say completely replacing the hammers with e-bows is the way to go. SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ > >> >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, > >> >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I still say completely replacing the hammers with e-bows is the way > to go. Well, when you've finished skimming bits of e-mails and mindlessly posting your reply minutes after having not understood the important ideas in them, perhaps you should start replacing hammers with e-bows if that is what you think would be best. Did you skim the first paragraph of the above link http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=20040422192417.24625.00000224@mb-m01.aol.com which states "the neo-Bechstein electric pianos of the 1930s were the precursor of the modern electric guitar for example, and pianos have been built which use circular rotating 'bows' to sound the strings like a violin." Your idea has already been tried - such instruments are impossibly difficult to play and therefore useless (as discussed in the above link http://mathforum.org/discuss/sci.math/mbig/557148/557148). I'm not sure if you are serious about having an interest in "real-world music rather than hypotheses", unless you interest is in discouraging the efforts of composers, performers, instrumentalists and other musicians who struggle to reach an audience. Your phrase 'working model' implies to me that you have an old-fashioned notion of the idea of patenting new inventions - there are no new ideas in Seraph pianos, all parts of which have already been built, but there is no music written for them. The purpose of charitable organisations such as the Norris Prize fund is to encourage the composition and performance of new music by providing financial assistance to deserving musicians. What exactly is the purpose of your badly-thought-out replies to my postings? Ask a friend to show you an e-bow. Your "circular bow" idea suggests cluelessness. SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Entries, written in a suitable music notation, should be submitted to >apollonicon@aol.com . >>I skimmed a bit of this. Somewhere there's a recording of a >>special version Stravinsky wrote of Les Noches for an ensemble [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>cymbalom. Now, an e-bow-based mechanism, THAT could be the start >>of something. >My interest is in promoting the composition and performance of new >music. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >which simulate recognisable speech when performed correctly, >have been written using similar techniques. >>Hmmm, let us know when you've got a working model in the real world. >>I for one am more interested in real-world music than hypotheses. >>I still say completely replacing the hammers with e-bows is the way >>to go. >Well, when you've finished skimming bits of e-mails and mindlessly >posting your reply minutes after having not understood the important [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >providing financial assistance to deserving musicians. What exactly >is the purpose of your badly-thought-out replies to my postings? >>Ask a friend to show you an e-bow. Your "circular bow" idea suggests >>cluelessness. If your purpose is to advertise e-bows ( http://www.ebow.com ) for electric guitars, this is not the right thread for you to be contributing to - Seraph pianos are NOT electronic instruments or synthesizers, they are computer-assisted sixth-tone acoustic pianos. You seem to think that the "circular bow" idea was mine but in fact I pointed out that such instruments were built in the 1930s (as were the auto-repeating pianos which you mentioned and the neo-Bechstein electric pianos which led to the development of the modern electric guitar). It is probably possible to replace the hammers of an electric piano with e-bows as you suggested, but my own idea is for an acoustic instrument. If compositions are written featuring Seraph pianos, the instruments can be built in due course as necessary; there are no technical problems with manufacturing them, and few questions as to their usefulness. The compass and other features of the modern piano have been extended in the past because of the efforts of composers - Ravel wrote a top D-flat in one piano piece and a bottom G-sharp in another (Steinway concert grands have been built with notes down to a low F, mainly to improve the overall acoustic resonances and sonorities of the instrument, though I haven't seen an instrument with the D-flat). >If your purpose is to advertise e-bows ( http://www.ebow.com ) for >electric guitars, this is not the right thread for you to be >contributing to - Seraph pianos are NOT electronic instruments or >synthesizers, they are computer-assisted sixth-tone acoustic pianos. Very silly. E-bows can be used anywhere where the strings have a significant iron content, or where a metal object can be safely clipped onto the strings. [blather deleted] >If compositions are written featuring Seraph pianos, I'm a composer. When you've got mp3s of the instrument, let me know. > the instruments >can be built in due course as necessary; Whereas without resorting to pie in the sky, just about any sound can be assembled in the digital domain already, by the composer in many cases. Speaking as a composer, I am not interested in devoting my effort to writing for a hypothetical instrument with a bunch of characteristics far outside the realm of experience which I cannot try out during the compositional process. Existing computerized methods allow composers to try out all sorts of sounds right here and now rather than in hypothesis. From my perspective, it sounds like you're asking for a bunch of free repertoire with which to justify the manufacture of your instrument, whereas if you had a prototype on which you could actually play music, you might be able to get folks interested in writing for it. This approach has worked for Terman, Moog, Yamaha, Boesendorfer, and many others. Most composers simply don't have the clout of a Richard Wagner to bring about the development of a custom instrument---and Wagner's specialized tubas are not that different from euphoniums and saxhorns. Speaking of Sax, there's yet another inventor. Send an mp3 when you've got an instrument. SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ > >Entries are requested for Norris prizes, value $1000 per prizewinner, > >awarded to composers of music featuring the Seraph piano as described [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Entries, written in a suitable music notation, should be submitted to > >apollonicon@aol.com . > I skimmed a bit of this. Somewhere there's a recording of a special > version Stravinsky wrote of Les Noches for an ensemble of electromechanical > auto-repeating pianos. I just couldn't see a repeating hammer-driven > mechanism sounding any different, certainly not sounding any more voice- > or wind-like than a cymbalom. Now, an e-bow-based mechanism, THAT could > be the start of something. > >My interest is in promoting the composition and performance of > >new music. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >the instruments > >can be built in due course as necessary; > Very silly. E-bows can be used anywhere where the strings have a > significant iron content, or where a metal object can be safely clipped [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Wagner's specialized tubas are not that different from euphoniums and > saxhorns. Speaking of Sax, there's yet another inventor. Have you no imagination? How do you think composers such as Brahms, Mozart and all the other great composers of the past composed orchestral music featuring effects which had never before been heard? Perhaps you personally should think of Seraph pianos as instruments designed for deaf composers. They are acoustic instruments, not digital pianos or synthesizers, and any composer with an understanding of how they work and a musical imagination capable of writing music without first having heard it will find the instruments easy to write for effectively. Influential composers such as Pierre Boulez (composer of Le Marteau sans Maitre - 'the hammer without a master') could probably single-handedly prevent development of the instruments if they disapproved of them, other than that, no particular 'clout' is required from composers. I am asking for some repertoire so that I can justify manufacturing the instrument myself - if their is insufficient interest I shall spend my time and money on something else. > Send an mp3 when you've got an instrument. > >Prizewinning works will be performed in a public concert when ten prizes have been awarded. >Have you no imagination? How do you think composers such as Brahms, >Mozart and all the other great composers of the past composed >orchestral music featuring effects which had never before been heard? Very silly. They had in fact heard them all, and almost all of them PLAYED them all. Especially Brahms, who was from the era of composers who could sub for any player in an orchestra. It sounds to me like you need new imagination for ways to raise funds. >Perhaps you personally should think of Seraph pianos as instruments >designed for deaf composers. They are acoustic instruments, not >digital pianos or synthesizers, and any composer with an understanding >of how they work and a musical imagination capable of writing music >without first having heard it will find the instruments easy to write >for effectively. Don't just tell me about the instruments, show me one. >Influential composers such as Pierre Boulez (composer of Le Marteau >sans Maitre - 'the hammer without a master') could probably [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >Prizewinning works will be performed in a public concert when ten >prizes have been awarded. Send an mp3 when you've got an instrument. SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ Comment: This cross-posting thread hopefully is not too marginal for the technical subjects treated in alt.sci.physics.acoustics I find the subject of new music sounds otherwise fascinating...... > Influential composers such as Pierre Boulez (composer of Le Marteau > sans Maitre - 'the hammer without a master') could probably [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > insufficient interest I shall spend my time and money on something > else. Can someone ere describe (mechanically and tone-wise) the Seraph piano as distinguished from the conventional hammer-klavier? Angelo campanella Signature--------- www.CampanellaAcoustics.com --------- "I have simply studied carefully whatever I've undertaken, and tried to hold a reserve that would carry me through." - Charles A. Lindbergh. "As for background noise level; 35 dBA is a good classroom; 45 dBA is a sound masking system!" - Anthony K. Hoover >Comment: This cross-posting thread hopefully is not too marginal for the >technical subjects treated in alt.sci.physics.acoustics > > I find the subject of new music sounds otherwise fascinating...... > Can someone ere describe (mechanically and tone-wise) the Seraph piano >as distinguished from the conventional hammer-klavier? Certainly. The conventional hammer-klavier has been heard, and the Seraph piano is a plan for the future. SignatureMatthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields Music: Splendor in Sound "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria." Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/ |
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