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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Acoustics / April 2005



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T60 in a big space

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Ing Mauricio Pino C - 21 Apr 2005 01:15 GMT
Friends:
I want to ask if the t60 depends on the position in a big space,
specifically a basquet stadium. In this order is better to take T60
measurements in various points or everyone give the same result?. a
0,1 sec samples is sufficient or i need a smaller ones?.

Thanks and luck to all.
Jens Rodrigo - 21 Apr 2005 07:10 GMT
> I want to ask if the T60 depends on the position in a big space,
> specifically a basquet stadium. In this order is better to take T60
> measurements in various points or everyone give the same result?
> a 0,1 sec samples is sufficient or i need a smaller ones?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=measuring+reverberation+time
brings you the answers and more:

http://www.norsonic.com/web_pages/reverberation_time.html
http://tosa.mri.co.jp/sounddb/reverb/indexe.htm
http://www.picotech.com/experiments/reverberation/
Chris Whealy - 21 Apr 2005 07:27 GMT
> Friends:
> I want to ask if the t60 depends on the position in a big space,
> specifically a basquet stadium. In this order is better to take T60
> measurements in various points or everyone give the same result?. a
> 0,1 sec samples is sufficient or i need a smaller ones?.

Strictly speaking, reverberation time is a statistical measure which
assumes that the sound field in the room is completely diffuse.
Therefore, based on the fundamental assumptions made by the RT60
algorithms, it should not matter where in the room you are sitting.

Meanwhile, back in reality, the sound field in a room is never truly
diffuse; therefore, there will be some differences depending on your
location.

I would take measurements at various locations room your stadium and
then compare the differences.  I would not expect the variation in RT to
be very large but then I haven't seen your situation.

Chris W

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The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
                                         ---

Angelo Campanella - 21 Apr 2005 16:35 GMT
>> I want to ask if the t60 depends on the position in a big space,
>> specifically a basquet stadium. In this order is better to take T60
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Therefore, based on the fundamental assumptions made by the RT60
> algorithms, it should not matter where in the room you are sitting.

Here we have the situation where a simple variable is measured, the
decay of sound at a point in space.

The question becomes "what does this mean".

For instance, when I make an internet connection in dial-in, one of the
handshaking protocols is where a pulsed tone "ping" is sent to my
computer, and the rate at which it decays in subsequent round trips is
an indication of the transmission loss of said connection, and therefore
indirectly implies the bandwidth that this specific connection can purvey.

In a closed and very diffuse room, the decay rate from a "ping" implies
the amount of sound absorption that is contained in that closed room,
and Sabine's equation may be applied when that absorption is relatively
minor, etc.

The fact that sound persists in the room from an emitted spoken
syllable, also of a "ping" character, for a finite time while it decays
has a second meaning; that dynamic (real) speech depends on a rapid
succession of emitted syllables to convey information. When the
reverberation time is so long as to not change reverberant level much
between syllables, "speech interference" is said to occur. Thus, english
proceeding at 50 milliseconds per syllable means, for instance that in
this one 20th of a second, sound in a room with an RT60 of one second
will diminish 60/20= 3 dB between syllables. One might then infer that
the signal-to-noise ratio for speech in that room is only 3 dB (not very
good).

In an open space, the decay of echoes whose level diminishes with time
can be measured OK. But it's hard or impossible to define the volume to
be assigned to that space, so that this real observed decay cannot be
used in a Sabine formula to determine absorption area.

But that same real observed decay can be used to determine speech
interference.

Angelo campanella
Noral Stewart - 21 Apr 2005 12:17 GMT
As stated by Chris, simple theory and reality are not the same.  Normal
practice should be to use at least two source locations (unless possibly you
are concerned about only a single source location) and several microphone
locations.  If results are close to the same, you can average them to
characterize the space.  However, if you have large variations you need to
recognize that and consider whether action is needed.
> Friends:
> I want to ask if the t60 depends on the position in a big space,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thanks and luck to all.
 
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