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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Acoustics / August 2005



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Position of sound source during RT measurement

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CSL - 08 Aug 2005 10:04 GMT
Hi,

I am going to measure RT of a large auditorium.  I am facing a problem that
how to place the loudspeaker in a right position. I dont have an
omi-directional speaker but a cube-like loudspeaker (speaker diameter about
14" ).

In order to prevent direct sound to the microphone, shall the speaker been
lied down and faced to the ceiling ?  Otherwise facing the speaker to walls
?  Any suggestion ?

Regards,
CSL
kifuyu@gmail.com - 12 Aug 2005 11:01 GMT
In my opinion, loud speaker can be placed at the corner of walls and
covered with something like plate to avoid direct sound to mic.
Tom Harper - 19 Aug 2005 15:26 GMT
If you are going to measure the RT in a large auditorium, I have always
found that it is better to use an impulsive source rather than a
loudspeaker. If the space is large it is very difficult to get enough
energy input from a speaker.

The ISO standard allows for certain types of impulsive sources. The
easiest is to use Ballon pops, from memory I think that you need at
least two source locations and about six receiver locations. When
buying the ballons don't buy cheep ones, you need a good quality ballon
to make a good loud pop. Good quality ballons work quite well.

Another good impulsive source is a starters pistol, it is a little too
loud in small spaces but in a large space it works well. Of course the
ISO standard also allows for the use of a cannon shot, never been able
to convice a client to let me fire a cannon in their auditorium.
salmonegg@sbcglobal.net - 19 Aug 2005 19:09 GMT
On 8/19/05 7:26 AM, in article
1124461568.739046.19370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Tom Harper"
<gu_tar@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> If you are going to measure the RT in a large auditorium, I have always
> found that it is better to use an impulsive source rather than a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ISO standard also allows for the use of a cannon shot, never been able
> to convice a client to let me fire a cannon in their auditorium.

Gee, this sounds like a fine application for chirped pulse compression. With
modern computers computers it ought to be a snap==except for the
programming.

Bill
Tony - 20 Aug 2005 10:16 GMT
> On 8/19/05 7:26 AM, in article
> 1124461568.739046.19370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Tom Harper"
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> loudspeaker. If the space is large it is very difficult to get enough
>> energy input from a speaker.

Agreed, if you're doing it broadband.  It's not so bad with 1/3 octave
excitation, if your RT analyser and noise generator support that.  How
difficult it is depends very much on the level of low frequency background
noise that you're trying to overcome.

Signature

Tony Woolf
My e-mail address has no hyphen
- but please don't use it, reply to the group.

GoobAudio - 23 Aug 2005 14:03 GMT
If you are using an MLS analyzer you are probably best
trying a corner as it will excite most of the rooms
modes there. If you leave the mic in place you may try
to excite from more than one corner and compare
measurements. I know that as I move the mic around the
room I see different RT60 and I expect to see different
RT60 moving the sound source but have not tried it.

Phil
www.remove nospam-philsaudio.com /rt60.htm__

: > On 8/19/05 7:26 AM, in article

1124461568.739046.19370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"Tom Harper"
: > <gu_tar@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
: >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
: difficult it is depends very much on the level of low frequency background
: noise that you're trying to overcome.
Angelo Campanella - 24 Aug 2005 15:09 GMT
> If you are using an MLS analyzer you are probably best
> trying a corner as it will excite most of the rooms
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> room I see different RT60 and I expect to see different
> RT60 moving the sound source but have not tried it.

    In oversimplified theory (e.g. Sabine absorption), the decay rate is
calculated using the average absorption in the room.

    In reality, the RT observed at any point in that room is the result of
the decay rate of the modes dominant in amplitude there. Note that
(except for very low frequencies) I said the plural, 'modes'.

    When there are multiple modes within the pass band, such as the 250 Hz
1/3 octave band, several room modes can occur within this pass band from
223 Hz to 281 Hz.

    At that moderately low frequency of 250 Hz, the wavelength is about
4.4' (1.3m). A changed position can see modes of different shapes and
damping. (A "mode shape" is just a map of the locations of the maximum
and minimum SPL for that specific mode.) It's the damping (AKA
'absorption') rate for each specific mode that determines the decay rate
(in dB/sec) of that specific mode.

    The damping, or decay rate, for each mode depends on the amount of
sound absorbing material located at the pressure maximums of the mode
shape. (Suspended volume absorbers also absorb at the sound velocity
maximums, found at and near sound pressure minimums.)
   
    The decay rate result found for this 250 Hz 1/3 octave band will be the
decay rate of the ensembled average energy of the group of modes
occurring in that 1/3 octave pass band. Movement from one location to
another will find a different amplitude distribution and accordingly a
different ensemble decay rate.

    Another interesting and often confounding result is that there are
often modes with fast decays (high absorption) and other modes in the
same pass band having a slow decay (low absorption), causing a
"two-slope" decay. The slow tail is always due to modes that experience
much less decay, such as a mode trapped between two parallel walls
having no absorption installed on them. Whether you select for
consideration the early (fast) decay or the later (slow) decay is a
matter of sound control strategy. Early decay is significant for noise
reduction measures. Late decay is of concern for speech intelligibility
where reverberating vowel sounds mask later sibilant sounds.

    In the 1950's, Fitzroy knew of the parsed x-, y-, z dimensionality, and
strove to compensate or represent it with his three- expression
refinement. His method more accurately estimates the decay rate to be
found in practical rooms having poor diffusion (most occupied rooms
these days). I have used this method consistently throughout the years
to control my architectural designs.

Back to the original question:
    Knowing that decay rates observed depend on modal structure in both the
frequency and spatial domains, one also expects a variation observed RT
for any band of frequencies when moving the microphone from one position
to another, and also when moving the source from one position to another.
    It is possible that when the measurement band is so narrow as to
encompass only one mode, that the variation with microphone position,
and the source position as well, will disappear.
    But one must be cautious of "degenerate modes" at moderate frequencies,
where two different modes can have identically the same frequency. Cubic
rooms are worst for this degeneracy. Rooms with two dimensions the same
are next worst, and rooms with three different dimensions have fewer
still such degenerate modes. It is also considered effective to have non
parallel walls so that modal definition becomes washed out or blurred.
    Thus, one can minimize the decay sensitivity to source positions by
constructing or selecting test rooms with non equal x, y, z dimensions
and non parallel walls.
    Common architecture (faced every day in consulting work) is less kind
in this regard.

        Angelo Campanella
 
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