Calibration - How long does it last
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Tom Harper - 22 Sep 2005 16:03 GMT I have a question about calibration for slm's and field calibrators.
I vagley remember that a slm's calibration is valid for two years and a field calibrator for one. I thought that I had read this in a document some years ago now but I can't remember where.
My calibration lab whats to calibrate our SLM every year, they say it is recommended by NATA. However, if the cal is OK for two years and baring any malfunction that would cast doubt on the meter, I don't see the need.
There of course may be regional/international differences in the type of standard used (IEC or ANSI etc) but I thought that in general the requirements should similar.
Cheers Tom
Tony - 22 Sep 2005 19:04 GMT > My calibration lab whats to calibrate our SLM every year, they say it > is recommended by NATA. However, if the cal is OK for two years and > baring any malfunction that would cast doubt on the meter, I don't see > the need. Calibration is a funny thing. The most useful calibration is the one that is done after the measurement. If it is OK it is very unlikely that the meter was not working properly when the measurement was done (count the negatives!) But that's not the calibration certificate that you put a copy of in your report. Of course the calibration before the measurement is also useful: that makes it less likely that you are wasting effort by making a measurement that will later have doubt cast on it. As you say "barring any malfunction". Some malfunctions can be subtle, for example non-linearity in the A to D converter. One has to take a view as to the likely stability of the equipment in question, and the likelihood that you would notice anything important being wrong. I do think it is important to do what checks are possible between calibrations. Satisfying the lawyers is another matter. Most organisations suggest 2 years but some manufacturers say 1 year intervals, in which case the only way to be really safe from criticism is to follow the shorter time.
 Signature Tony Woolf www.tonywoolf.co.uk My e-mail address has no hyphen - but please don't use it, reply to the group.
Noral Stewart - 23 Sep 2005 00:38 GMT We recently went through a discussion of this in a standards committee. A proposal was made to put a requirement in a measurement standard that all instruments had to have been certified by a calibration lab within a year before the measurements. However, many people (including one who operates a calibration lab) argued that this was not necesarily reasonable. It was noted that in the US now the laboratories that meet one of the accreditation standards are not allowed to put a sticker specifying a due date on the instrument unless the customer requests it, and then they must put the interval requested by the customer. Basically it is up to the user to specify what he believes to be the necessary interval based on usage of the instrument, experience with it, and expectations of his customers. That is where you have to look at any requirements in regulations that you must meet when doing measurements. The guidance given by one good US accredited calibration lab can be found here
http://www.scantekinc.com/calibration.htm#5
In our case for the measurement standard, we wound up requiring that the calibration date be reported in the test report but not specifying an interval.
Tony Woolf makes a good point that was brought up in our discussions, that the most significant calibration would be one done after the measurement. After all, something could happen to the instrument during shipment from the lab rendering it out of calibration once your receive it. This is a reason I would never be without at least two calibrators and some means of checking some meter properties other than one level at one frequency.
>I have a question about calibration for slm's and field calibrators. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheers Tom The Ghost - 23 Sep 2005 02:50 GMT snip....snip
> Tony Woolf makes a good point that was brought up in our discussions, > that the most significant calibration would be one done after the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > calibrators and some means of checking some meter properties other > than one level at one frequency. I think that there are two issues that need to be dealt with separately. One is what calibration and/or operational verification needs to be done periodically in order to meet the requirements of various standards and/or stand up to legal scrutiny. The other is what calibration and/or operational verificaiton needs to be done by the investigator/consultant prior to and after a critical measurement in order to provide undisputable proof of the accuracy of the measurement. The latter will involve not only verifying sensitiviy at a single frequency, but will involve making measurements in the laboratory of the spectral and level characteristics of known reference sources as well as comparing the measurement results with those obtained using other instruments. In order to provide undisputable proof of the accuracy of a particular measurement, this sort of validation should be performed in the laboratory both before and after the field measurement (IMHO).
Tom Harper - 23 Sep 2005 04:48 GMT Thanks for the replies
The issue here is of course one that has little to do with the real accuracy of the measurements but is in fact keeping the lawyers happy.
I always try to have at least two meters and calibrators on hand so that I can cross check for accuracy between the the two instruments. Also a calibration check before and after vital. As Tony says this is about the bit of paper that has to appear in the appendix of the report so that the bean counters and paper pushes will not complain.
This lack of a defined interval all seams a little uncertain to me and I thought that a definate interval would be defined not some agreement between the lab and the instrument owner.
Surley this sort of uncertainity is the sort of information that lawyers love to hear. They can argue to they are blue in the face (and charge u a lot of money) about what the period should be. However, thanks for the comments.
One more question, what about so called "manufacturers calibration" I have bought a new B&K calibrator recently (it is still back at our purchasing dept and not in my office) and it comes with a certificate that states that it is working according to the requirements of the calibration standard. Is this a suitable form of calibration?
Regards
Tom
bert stoltenborg - 23 Sep 2005 10:40 GMT > Thanks for the replies > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Tom How much does type I or II gear deviate from the calibration? I use a B&K 2236 or 2238 or SVAN 945; for longer measurements I back up using spectralab on a laptop with a B&K mic (you can record the wave and check afterward if you are measuring the noise source or some crazy blackbird sitting on the mic :-)). I sometimes compare with a cheap type II Lutron. I get pretty similar readings from all that gear (within a couple of a tenth of a dB).
How about new digital gear? This old B&K stuff was made excellent, when you show an electrics engineer such gear they tend to immediately fall in love. The new gear, based on IC's, seems to be not that impressive. And I have encountered (and heared about) several problems with newer SLM's, being a bit flimsy, it seems. bert
Noral Stewart - 23 Sep 2005 12:48 GMT > Thanks for the replies > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Tom Read the documentation carefully and if any doubt check with B&K. I do know of a case of a calibrator purchased from another manufacturer that was far out of calibration when received. The manufacturer responded "but oh you did not choose to have it calibrated before delivery." This was at the time a very well known and regarded company.
Asbjørn - 23 Sep 2005 18:22 GMT >> Thanks for the replies >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > oh you did not choose to have it calibrated before delivery." This was at > the time a very well known and regarded company. Sorry, but I think I had an almost similar experience with a B&K calibrator once, many years ago. It even had a green "Quality checked" sticker.... But that was the one and only time.
I always carry two calibrators (B&K or Norsonic) along with the noise meter or recording equipment, and check or record them both before and immediately after the noise measurement/recording. Some faults such as damaged microphone diaphragm or faulty cable does not necessarily show up clearly with a 1000 Hz calibrator only, but comparing a 1000 Hz and a 250 Hz calibrator will reveal the fault.
Our calibrators are checked against certified reference equipment annually, while the noise meters/analyzers are checked every two years.
Asbjørn.
bert stoltenborg - 24 Sep 2005 00:50 GMT But when you calibrate, are these things way of line?
Asbjørn - 24 Sep 2005 18:41 GMT > But when you calibrate, are these things way of line? I guess you meant"--- off line?" ? Normally not by many tenth of a dB, if nothing was dropped or got wet or dirty. We also have to calibrate because we change between a lot of microphones (and accelerometers etc.) all the time.
Asbjørn
Angelo Campanella - 06 Oct 2005 15:28 GMT > "bert stoltenborg" <bert@chaingang.nl> wrote >>But when you calibrate, are these things way of line? > I guess you meant"--- off line?" ? perhaps more appropriate English is "way out of line"
> Normally not by many tenth of a dB, if nothing was dropped or got wet or > dirty. > We also have to calibrate because we change between a lot of microphones > (and accelerometers etc.) all the time. I have come to the conclusion that the operative word "Calibration" has two independent meanings in practice:
1- (Original) To Establish, and if done later, whether the instrument has changed or drifted and if so to establish and new and correct setting.
2- (Common use) To verify that the instrument is what we think it is (right sort, battery good, not tinkered with, not broken, not waterlogged).
#1 requires good rigor and requires the services of an independent laboratory, usually at some great distance and expense.
#2 only requires a reliable device such as a hand-held "calibrator" of which we all have at least a few about the office.
#2 is what we do on daily basis and, in my opinion, should be announced liberally in our reports to our clients and in our personal notes as good practice and good conscience.
#2 can be used to sort out whether an instrument is wavering in accuracy, and whether it merits return to the factory for repair to re-establish its reliability and accuracy.
Whether a client accepts #2 as full guarantee of reliable data on his behalf is up to that client. At that point, it usually becomes a matter of opinion. If it is evaluation of a plot of land for a housing development, it may not become an issue. If it is certification of over flight noise data for a new Boeing 787 or new Airbus, I suspect the client will ask for #1 to be done frequently.
Angelo Campanella
Herb Singleton - 07 Oct 2005 03:19 GMT In article <0wa1f.380915$5N3.285884@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> I have come to the conclusion that the operative word "Calibration" has > two independent meanings in practice: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > #1 requires good rigor and requires the services of an independent > laboratory, usually at some great distance and expense. Regarding #1: so, do we treat all components equally?
A lot of SLM's (certainly most modern Type 1 meters I've come across) consist of a microphone capsule, pre-amp, and the meter itself. Experience has taught me that it's a good idea to send the mic capsules and pre-amps out to a NIST-traceable calibration lab at least once a year since they are most likely to fail.
However, has anyone ever had a failure with a modern SLM that could only be caught with a 3rd-party cal? I've had plenty of unit failures, but it usually meant that the unit wouldn't turn on :(
And it turns out that Richard Peppin's and I think alike: <http://www.sandv.com/downloads/0305pepp.pdf>
In any event, while I've been cal'ing mics and pre-amps annually, I've stuck to a 2-year rotation for SLM cals (and I check the mic/pre-amp/slm combo with a GenRad 1986 Omnical every 4 to 6 weeks 'just-in-case').
Comments/criticisms?
Herb
Tony - 07 Oct 2005 10:05 GMT > ... > Experience has taught me that it's a good idea to send the mic capsules [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And it turns out that Richard Peppin's and I think alike: > <http://www.sandv.com/downloads/0305pepp.pdf> Very sensible stuff.
The idea of checking electronically is a good one. The UK association of noise consultants do a system based on test signals recorded on a CD, that allows fairly comprehensive electronic checking. See http://makeashorterlink.com/?A230310FB This is only available to their members. It would be very nice if a reputable independent organisation would do something similar. Or for the economically minded (cheapskates) like myself, if some kind expert would tell us the required test signals, the readings that should be obtained, and the tolerances! It is easy enough to generate all sorts of well defined signals with a PC package such as Cool Edit. The ANC system includes a hardware interface but I don't know how important that is; I think it would be a pretty good test just to connect to the pre-amp from a normal audio system.
I agree that modern digital electronics are pretty reliable, and the power-on self test will catch some problems. But the analogue bits can still give trouble. And some of us are using meters that are over 10 years old, although not outdated. A friend of mine described the A to D converter as the prostate of sound level meters - it will pretty often give some sort of trouble if the meter lives long enough!
 Signature Tony Woolf My e-mail address has no hyphen - but please don't use it, reply to the group.
bert stoltenborg - 17 Oct 2005 12:19 GMT So it's not totally senseless to use a normal 1000 Hz or 250 Hz calibrator on a SLM and now and then use it in a TDS or MLS system like TEF or MLSSA to measure a known anechoic loudspeaker frequency characteric to check if the thing also produces a normal response, I guess. I'm referring to an older thread about this stuff where some experts said that a SLM can calibrate perfect to a 1 kHz calibrator while the membrane is wrinkled like the skin of an old sailor.
> > ... > > Experience has taught me that it's a good idea to send the mic capsules [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > My e-mail address has no hyphen > - but please don't use it, reply to the group. Greg Locock - 18 Oct 2005 09:52 GMT > So it's not totally senseless to use a normal 1000 Hz or 250 Hz > calibrator on a SLM and now and then use it in a TDS or MLS system [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > said that a SLM can calibrate perfect to a 1 kHz calibrator while the > membrane is wrinkled like the skin of an old sailor. Not too sure about perfectly, but within 0.2 dBA. At one lab we had a floating population of say 8 calibrators and 60 mics, so 0.2 dBA variation was inside the typical SLM<-> calibrator variation.
Typical failure was about a 6mm long tear along one edge of the diaphragm, and wrinkles across 1/8 to 1/3 of the surface.
Other failures were small perforations through the diaphragm.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Tony - 18 Oct 2005 11:19 GMT I used to tie together two mics/preamps of the same type with a rubber band, and look at the difference signal on a dual channel analyser, just using ventilation noise or traffic noise as a source. Anything abnormal showed up immediately. I don't currently have an analyser that will do this trick and I really miss it.
 Signature Tony Woolf My e-mail address has no hyphen - but please don't use it, reply to the group.
bert stoltenborg - 18 Oct 2005 23:26 GMT Cool edit pro? Smaart? Spectra lab? Wavelab?
Most sound editors have an analyzer or plugin for that stuff :-)
GregS - 23 Sep 2005 14:07 GMT >Thanks for the replies > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >about the bit of paper that has to appear in the appendix of the report >so that the bean counters and paper pushes will not complain. Having something along with you to quickly check for gross errors is ideal. It can be an actual calibrator or another meter.
greg
>This lack of a defined interval all seams a little uncertain to me and >I thought that a definate interval would be defined not some agreement [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Tom Ken Plotkin - 24 Sep 2005 03:09 GMT [snip]
>The issue here is of course one that has little to do with the real >accuracy of the measurements but is in fact keeping the lawyers happy. For keeping the lawyers happy, phrases like "Calibrated in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications" and "Traceable to [appropriate country's standards lab]" do the trick.
For keeping yourself happy, nothing beats testing stuff in your lab before and after the test and staying alert in the field.
We used to rent equipment from a real cheap rental outfit. The last thing we ever rented from them was a tape recorder with a couple of dead channels. Problem was missing plug-ins. They sent the missing parts, but one channel was still dead. There was an empty transistor socket on the card.
We were not happy. If lawyers were involved, though, they would have been happy since everything (including the card with the missing transistor) had fresh cal stickers.
[snip]
>One more question, what about so called "manufacturers calibration" I >have bought a new B&K calibrator recently (it is still back at our >purchasing dept and not in my office) and it comes with a certificate >that states that it is working according to the requirements of the >calibration standard. Is this a suitable form of calibration? Only if somewhere it says "Calibrated..." and "Traceable," and has some kind of signature or seal.
Ken Plotkin
The Ghost - 24 Sep 2005 04:06 GMT snip...snip
> We used to rent equipment from a real cheap rental outfit. The last > thing we ever rented from them was a tape recorder with a couple of > dead channels. Problem was missing plug-ins. They sent the missing > parts, but one channel was still dead. There was an empty transistor > socket on the card. snip....snip
> Ken Plotkin
Some years back I was involved in a project for which several charge amplifiers were rented from a cheap rental outfit in Southern California. I think only 4 of 8 worked at all, but according to the stickers, all had been just calibrated. The cheap rental outfit that rented you the non- functional tape recorder wasn't by chance E.......r?
Ken Plotkin - 24 Sep 2005 16:23 GMT >Some years back I was involved in a project for which several charge >amplifiers were rented from a cheap rental outfit in Southern California. >I think only 4 of 8 worked at all, but according to the stickers, all had >been just calibrated. The cheap rental outfit that rented you the non- >functional tape recorder wasn't by chance E.......r? Southern California, but as I recall the cal-sticker-as-shipping-label outfit was D.......t.
Angelo Campanella - 24 Sep 2005 05:50 GMT > Tony Woolf makes a good point that was brought up in our discussions, that > the most significant calibration would be one done after the measurement. Makes a lot of sense.
> After all, something could happen to the instrument during shipment from the > lab rendering it out of calibration once your receive it. This is a reason > I would never be without at least two calibrators and some means of checking > some meter properties other than one level at one frequency. I cross-check three calibrators (on one meter/microphone) periodically, perhaps once a year. As long as they all agree within about +-o.2 dB, and they do not vary more than +- o.1 dB from previous, I am happy. As soon as an outlier occurs among the three, said outlier calibrator gets shipped off for recalibration. Such outlying occurs maybe once in 5 years (excluding catastrophes such as dropping it, or other clearly evident damages).
All meters themselves are checked with any one of these calibrators every time that meter is used for quantitative measurement.
I don't know how to declare this method in terms of time between calibrations.... I think the logic is more important than the calendar.
Angelo Campanella
Ken Plotkin - 24 Sep 2005 16:29 GMT [snip]
> All meters themselves are checked with any one of these calibrators >every time that meter is used for quantitative measurement. [snip]
When you check a meter, if the level is off a little, do you turn the adjustment screw (or the electronic equivalent) so the meter reads the correct value?
Lots of people do that, and every SLM I've used has provision to do it. The modern digital ones even do it automatically. It's a really good way to get screwed (no pun intended) - as Iearned the hard way early in my career.
Ken Plotkin
Angelo Campanella - 24 Sep 2005 22:41 GMT > When you check a meter, if the level is off a little, do you turn the > adjustment screw (or the electronic equivalent) so the meter reads the > correct value? Depends on he circumstance:
1- If the meter is to be used immediately, and I know the microphone can drift (e.g. electret microphones that are vulnerable to moisture), I will change the screw setting. I also check after the measurement if much time (an hour or more) has elapsed since the previous cal-check..
2- If the cal drift is very small small, not more than 0.1dB, I do not change it.
3- If the change is large; 1/2 dB or more, I am concerned about mic stability. I do not use the meter immediately, but rather let it "cook" for a while. Air condenser microphones are notorious for his behavior. As often as not, within 10 minutes, the original sensitivity is restored. If not, then there is trouble. I then listen to the audio with headphones plugged into the meter AC output. Popping and frying sounds indicate moisture. If persistent, I store that mic cartridge in a desiccator container, then install another microphone onto the SLM for use that day.
> Lots of people do that, and every SLM I've used has provision to do > it. The modern digital ones even do it automatically. It's a really > good way to get screwed (no pun intended) - as Iearned the hard way > early in my career. The fault is that you end up chasing the characteristics of a bad microphone. Bad is Bad.
I have avoided a lot (not all) of these problems by NOT leaving air condenser mics on the meter, but rather removing them and storing then in a closed cartridge (e.g. 35mm film container) with a desiccant pouch within. This has carried me far and well for decades.
Since many of my colleagues leave the mic on the meter and seem not to care, I have been testing a concept for the past few years on a single cartridge and pre amp. I still take the pre amp with mic off the meter, and store that unit in yet another container (three 35mm containers taped together), and it fares well. I have not yet recently tried leaving an air condenser mic on the meter in a carrying case. I did so only once or twice in the 1970's, encountered bad drifts, hence then and there abandoned that method.
Angelo Campanella
Ken Plotkin - 25 Sep 2005 01:54 GMT > The fault is that you end up chasing the characteristics of a bad >microphone. Bad is Bad. Exactly.
The tradition of turning the screw on a meter so the reading matches the calibrator value, or recording a cal tone and using that as a reference level, tells you nothing about the condition of the microphone. Somewhere along the line you've got to see what voltage the mic is putting out, and whether that agrees with the number on the cal sheet.
> I have avoided a lot (not all) of these problems by NOT leaving air >condenser mics on the meter, but rather removing them and storing then >in a closed cartridge (e.g. 35mm film container) with a desiccant pouch >within. This has carried me far and well for decades. The manufacturer's boxes seem to work pretty well. The mahogany boxes B&K used to provide were cute, but the modern plastic boxes work a lot better.
Not dropping the things also helps their lifetime.
John Seiler - 24 Sep 2005 02:16 GMT The old coal mine noise standard (Pre 2000) required that a noise dosimeter and an acoustical field calibrator be laboratory calibrated annually.
When a noise dosimeter (or sould level meter) is used for a field measurement, a field calibration is required both before and after the survey on which it is used.
Although not in the current regulations, we follow the same policy.
The ANSI standard for acoustical calibrators recommends an annual laboratory calibration.
The ANSI standard for the Measurement of Occupational Noise Exposure recommends an annual laboratory calibration for noise dosimeters, SLMs, and acoustical calibrators, plus before and after checks on all equipment used in a survey.
You may wish to take a look at an article entitled "Calibration of Acoustical Instruments for Noise Exposure Measurements" by Seiler and Giardino, Sound and Vibration Magazine, March 1996,
>I have a question about calibration for slm's and field calibrators. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheers Tom
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