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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / September 2006news on Alzheimers from Newshour PBS; family related diseases of Alzheimer, Parkinsons, Prion
I am posting this tonight because I saw a stunning explanation on Newshour of Alzheimers. A medical doctor on the program was about the explain what causes Alzheimers when he turned the explanation completely 180 degrees from what I had been discussing about these 3 diseases for half a decade now. I came to the conclusion in the past years that Alzheimers Parkinsons and Prion were 3 diseases of a same family of disease. And so alike one another that if a bacteria or virus causes any one of them, would mean that a microbe causes the other two. And it was found a few years back that a bacterium in well-water is the cause of Parkinsons. That indicates that both Alzheimers and Prion are ultimately the result of bacteria encounters. For nearly a decade now I have been saying that the Prusiner prion model was a fake and false model. Prions do not replicate. We do not see proteins in Alzheimers or Parkinsons replicating. But what was funny about this PBS program which I seemed to have overlooked, is that the doctor said that the amyloid protein in Alzheimers becomes misshapened. In prion disease the protein becomes misshapened also. Does a protein become misshapened in Parkinsons? So let me update my files on Alzheimers, Parkinsons and Prion. Since a bacteria causes Parkinsons then we can expect a bacteria or virus to cause Alzheimers and Prion. And the microbe could set up an allergic reaction that over produces or manufactures the given protein. And then these large numbers of unwanted proteins become misshapened. Misshapened by the microbe or an allergic reaction. For the Prusiner advocates, it is silly of them to think that prion proteins misshapen other prion proteins. And that is what the PBS Newshour interviewee suggested for Alzheimers is that the Alzheimers protein amyloid misshapes another amyloid when coming in contact. Although the interviewee did not say Alzheimers mimics Prions, but that is what I came to the conclusion. And the interviewee did not mention Prion disease. It just got me to thinking of these connections. I do not buy the Prusiner model and so I do not buy the idea of Alzheimers acting like a prion replication where a bad prion molecule bends a good prion molecule into another bad prion molecule. Where a bad Alzheimers protein bends a good Alzheimers protein into another bad Alzheimers protein. What I do buy is that bacteria cause Parkinsons, perhaps in an allergic reaction, for which bad proteins are manufactured. And the same scenario plays out for Alzheimers and Prion. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies There has always been some doubt as to whether amyloid is a cause or a consequence of the disease. Amyloid precusor protein when exposed to any agents capable of crosslinking it will deposit as amyloid. Cross linking agents would include anti body reactions and aluminium. In fact aluminium absorption by glycoproteins and amyloid are the basis of many of the tests for alzhiemers. In the post mortem situation one of the selective stains for the ID of amyloid is mucicarmine. Muci carmine is a dye tagged aluminium poly valent ion. In vivo injections of radioactive fluoride have been used to diagnose and trace the development of alzhiemers. The selective absorption of fluoride by amyloid deposit is almost certainly due to their aluminium content. Again there is the problem is the aluminium content a primary or secondary component. Bob M > There has always been some doubt as to whether amyloid is a cause or a > consequence of the disease. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bob M I thought years ago it was fairly well established that aluminum was not a cause of Alzheimers. And years before that I implicated copper or manganese as a culprit of Prion diseases. I thought the metals as a cause of Alzheimers, Prion, Parkinsons was fairly well ruled out. Even though these diseases take till old age to strike which would fit the mechanism of years of metal accumulation. I favor the allergic reaction or the anti-body reaction. Do you know how those well-water bacteria cause Parkinsons? A couple of years ago was confirmed report that well-water has strains of bacteria that can cause Parkinsons. Has anyone figured out the full mechanism of how these bacteria cause Parkinsons? Is it a anti-body type reaction? For Alzheimers and Prion, I have maintained the idea that when cells manufacture the proteins, that a manufacturing site goes awry, like a cookie cutter is misshapened which then spews out defective cookies that are misshaped. So my picture of Parkinsons, Prion and Alzheimers is that a microbe gets into the body and the microbe damages a manufacturing site of a protein which then spews out thousands of misshaped proteins. It is bacteria for Parkinsons but it maybe viruses for Alzheimers or Prion, or it maybe fungi. In the program it talked about a "early onset" Alzheimers victim in his early 50s. So why is Alzheimers and Parkinsons mostly about older people. And my answer is that of the analogy to "poison ivy" that in youth or middle age many people seem unaffected but then in older age, changes occur that the body becomes susceptible. Has anyone detailed how the bacteria creates Parkinsons? I think this is the key to unraveling both Prion and Alzheimers. I do not think metals are the cause. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies Bob M wrote: > There has always been some doubt as to whether amyloid is a cause or a > consequence of the disease. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bob M I thought years ago it was fairly well established that aluminum was not a cause of Alzheimers. And years before that I implicated copper or manganese as a culprit of Prion diseases. I thought the metals as a cause of Alzheimers, Prion, Parkinsons was fairly well ruled out. Even though these diseases take till old age to strike which would fit the mechanism of years of metal accumulation. I favor the allergic reaction or the anti-body reaction. Do you know how those well-water bacteria cause Parkinsons? A couple of years ago was confirmed report that well-water has strains of bacteria that can cause Parkinsons. Has anyone figured out the full mechanism of how these bacteria cause Parkinsons? Is it a anti-body type reaction? For Alzheimers and Prion, I have maintained the idea that when cells manufacture the proteins, that a manufacturing site goes awry, like a cookie cutter is misshapened which then spews out defective cookies that are misshaped. So my picture of Parkinsons, Prion and Alzheimers is that a microbe gets into the body and the microbe damages a manufacturing site of a protein which then spews out thousands of misshaped proteins. It is bacteria for Parkinsons but it maybe viruses for Alzheimers or Prion, or it maybe fungi. In the program it talked about a "early onset" Alzheimers victim in his early 50s. So why is Alzheimers and Parkinsons mostly about older people. And my answer is that of the analogy to "poison ivy" that in youth or middle age many people seem unaffected but then in older age, changes occur that the body becomes susceptible. Has anyone detailed how the bacteria creates Parkinsons? I think this is the key to unraveling both Prion and Alzheimers. I do not think metals are the cause. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello, I found the following quotation in the following mentioned book: "..."There is evidence that aluminum may play a role in Alzheimer diesease. Prolonged intravenous feeding of preterm infants with solutions containing Aluminum is associated with impaired neurologic development." "Laboratory Test Handbook" (2nd Edition) published 2002 by David S. Jacobs, M.D. and others. Jason ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hello, > I found the following quotation in the following mentioned book: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jason Thanks for the tip. I looked in wikipedia for any aluminum reference and mentions it as a risk factor. I am lukewarm to cold about aluminum as a cause. If aluminum were a big player, then what would have happened is some country which does not have any aluminum cooking utensils, pots, pans, drinking cups. No soda aluminum cans. No aluminum to speak of would have a low to zero incidence of Alzheimes. And then when some people of such a community move to a different part of the world such as Europe or USA with frequent exposer to aluminum would develop higher rates of the disease as compared to their home country where it was zero. I never hear of any such report. If aluminum was such a culprit then I would expect to hear of some report like this outline. And I should summarize and repeat what I had concluded for the past decade on my ongoing discussion of these three related diseases-- Alzheimers Prion and Parkinsons. I have sort of come to the overall perspective that these three diseases are mostly of a long life and worn out bodies for which the three most vulnerable proteins in the brain (proteins of Alzheimers, Huntington, Parkinson) have finally gone awry. It is a philosophy or attitude analogous to a new car. We expect the new car to run for about 7 years without ever anything going wrong. But about the 8th year we can expect the most hostile spots of the car to start going wrong. Such as the battery is a hostile environment and would start to fail after 7th year. Similarly the brain is a hostile environment for molecules such as proteins with all the electrical impulses going on, that we should expect some of the brain proteins to go awry. None of these three diseases of Alzheimers, Prion, Parkinsons have simple causes but seem to have complex and multi-causes. So I think that we are going to have to wait for a century of research before we feel comfortable about stating definitive causes for Alzheimers, Prion, Parkinsons. And the definitive cause of Alzheimers, Prion and Parkinsons maybe just what I stated above-- that given the lifetime of humans, several proteins are vulnerable to the wear and tear of a lifetime and malfunction. Perhaps if we extend human lifetime to that of 150 years instead of 100 years, we would encounter a whole new set of diseases of proteins gone awry in the body -- for the reason that humans are living 50 years longer. But my best guess is that some microbe such as well-water bacteria causing some forms of Parkinsons relates to Alzheimers and Prion. In that some microbe sets off a chain of events in the body that induces the onset of Alzheimers or Prion. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies I have written a book "Dying for a Hamburger" in which I explore the relationship between commercial meat packing and the rise of Alzheimer's Disease(AD). I feel that rates of AD closly follow the advent of commercial meat packing. This explains why pre 1900 it is almost impossable to find any evidence of AD in any literature. Medical, secular or religous. Also geographically AD follows this industry which would explain the high rates in the US and Western Europe and the low rates in India and equatorial Africa.Also why Japan and Korea only started to report significant numbers of AD in the 1960s after they switched from a vegitarian/fish diet to a beef/meat diet. Aluminum is used equally in all these countries but AD rates vary widely. Also although on average people are living longer today that is due in large part to the sharp decrease in prinatal and infant mortality. The life expectancy at age 21 has only gone up about 10 years since the 1600s. I feel in some way AD is caused by prions or prion like substances that have got into the human food chain through commercial meat packing prcatices and are widely disseminated by the practice of making commercial hamburger in huge (>500,000) pound batches...............Murray > There has always been some doubt as to whether amyloid is a cause or a > consequence of the disease. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bob M >I have written a book "Dying for a Hamburger" in which I explore the >relationship between commercial meat packing and the rise of >Alzheimer's Disease(AD). >I feel that rates of AD closly follow the advent of commercial meat >packing. Correlation is not causation. A lot of things are different now than they were 100+ years ago. >This explains why pre 1900 it is almost impossable to find any evidence >of AD in any literature. >Medical, secular or religous. On the contrary, senile dementia is well documented in antiquity. The Greeks even had a senile old man in their mythology. Literature is full of characters who lose it with age. Also, both people and characters in literature who *don't* become senile with age are noted as exceptions. >Also geographically AD follows this industry which would explain the >high rates in the US and Western Europe and the low rates in India and >equatorial Africa.Also why Japan and Korea only started to report >significant numbers of AD in the 1960s after they switched from a >vegitarian/fish diet to a beef/meat diet. Well, Alzheimer's disease was originally defined as unusually early onset of senile dementia, i.e. in people in middle age. It's only recently that the condition so common in the elderly was recognized as the same disease, rather than a normal consequence of aging. Before the 1960's the definition of the disease was different, so you wouldn't expect it to be reported as such. Note also that life expectancy of adults is comparatively low in both India and equatorial Africa, access to medical care is poor and record keeping and reporting are often non-existent. Thus, there isn't much comparison. As in the developed world until very recently, people there would regard senile dementia as normal in the very few people who reach their 80s. Also that in the absence of modern medical care, the frail elderly don't survive very long, and this is the group with the highest rate of AD. Most of these people wouldn't survive long enough for their AD to progress to the more advanced stages. >Aluminum is used equally in all these countries but AD rates vary >widely. >Also although on average people are living longer today that is due in >large part to the sharp decrease in prinatal and infant mortality. >The life expectancy at age 21 has only gone up about 10 years since the >1600s. I think life expectancy at age 21 has probably gone up a good deal more than 10 years since 1600, if only from antibiotics, tetanus vaccine and drastically reduced rate of death from complications of pregnancy and childbirth. The latter is 1 woman in 6 in central and west Africa at present, while in the developed world it's 1 in 10,000. >I feel in some way AD is caused by prions or prion like substances that >have got into the human food chain through commercial meat packing >prcatices and are widely disseminated by the practice of making >commercial hamburger in huge (>500,000) pound >batches...............Murray If you want to test this hypothesis, you should look at the rate of Alzheimer's disease in Seventh Day Adventists. Most members of this religion are vegetarians, but otherwise they live under the same conditions as other people in the US. If their rate of AD is significantly lower, you've got something interesting to investigate. If it isn't, your hypothesis is significantly weakened. It's possible that prions are involved in AD, but so far there is no evidence. A strong negative correlation with vegetarianism would be very interesting, if it exists, but it wouldn't prove that prions are involved. Dear bae: > In article > <1154959967.102299.301270@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ... >>This explains why pre 1900 it is almost impossable >>to find any evidence of AD in any literature. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > characters in literature who *don't* become senile > with age are noted as exceptions. And "Alzheimer's disease" was not diagnosed uniformly until fairly recently. No surprise it isn't in old literature. ... >>I feel in some way AD is caused by prions or >>prion like substances that have got into the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > interesting to investigate. If it isn't, your hypothesis > is significantly weakened. Lots of hits both ways. http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vegetarian.html#link18 http://www.medicine.indiana.edu/iu_medicine/98_summer/dementiamyst.htm ... bottom third of the page "Nature vs. Nurture". Vitamin B-12 and "fish oil" appear to be important in prevention. > It's possible that prions are involved in AD, but so > far there is no evidence. A strong negative > correlation with vegetarianism would be very > interesting, if it exists, but it wouldn't prove that > prions are involved. David A. Smith In sci.chem "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com> wrote: :> On the contrary, senile dementia is well documented :> in antiquity. The Greeks even had a senile old man [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : And "Alzheimer's disease" was not diagnosed uniformly until : fairly recently. No surprise it isn't in old literature. AFAIK, Alzheimer's disease cannot be diagnosed unambiguously without an autopsy. That is, a living patient can only be diagnosed as having symptoms consistent with Alzheimer's disease. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience" Our pediatrician told us about a study that showed that people who eat fruit every day when young do not get Alzheimer's. I seem to recall another study that suggested that vegetables can reduce incidence of Parkinson's. Dying for a hamburger? My mother ate a lot at McDonalds prior to developing Alzheimer's. We suspected her diet which was extremely bad. By the way, for dietary supplements visit www.ILikeIt.Unfranchise.com >I have written a book "Dying for a Hamburger" in which I explore the > relationship between commercial meat packing and the rise of [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >> Bob M Hi, I have read through some of your posts and I am interested in getting more information regarding the affects on your family. Part of my course at school is to investigate the effects of AD on the family. I have posted part of my paper on a blog, feel free to take a look - http://alzheimers-.blogspot.com. My main focus is going to be the affect on carers and the support required for someone with Alzheimer's disease. Thanks > There has always been some doubt as to whether amyloid is a cause or a > consequence of the disease. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bob M |
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