Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / November 2007

"<snip rest of your silly crap>"
Will do fine as an example.

I'm not always as clear as I hope. But I'm not talking about Hinduism.
That's like saying that both Lucretius and Pythagoras were pagans,
even tho their perspectives, in both cases negating polytheism, were
the same. NO. I'm coming at this from a whole nother direction, the
North.

What remains in India is a lot like what remains in the Vatican of
early Christianity- which for example, married faggots. Indians can do
what they like with the Vedic tradition, but it came down to them from
Sogdia, and the merchant class of what was known as the Silk Road.
Archeology reveals a band of cultures from the Danube basin, east
about 40-45deg No, thru the Kara Kum, Kyzle Kum, & Taklamakhan deserts
all the way to the Jade Gate. And those cultures started out in the
Danube over 7000 years ago, and spread east across what was then
fertile grassland not desert 6000 years ago, to arrive in what is now
NW China 4000 years ago.

In short, the orginal Aryans. India has some small remnant of their
documents. But- expeditions to cental Asia 100 years ago brought back
truckloads which mostly laid ignored in museum cellars because of the
Wars and the Iron Curtain. But now the Brits & Chinese, as mentioned
here, are going to post 100,000 scans of documents and artifacts
online. http://www.silk-road.com/newsletter/vol3num2/5_bloom.php

In my Matrix, but maybe not in your world Mike, this is already
rattling cages. The oldest ashrams ever found are not in India, but in
the Southern Kara Kum, near Gonur and Togoluk. 4000 BP. with the
standard meditation hall, the set of monk cells, and sacred
apocatheries. With bowls still on the floor, perfectly intact, with
cannibis, ephedra, and opium for use in the ritual setting. Its too
bad they didnt think to look for mushroom spores, but from other
sources, I bet that Amanita Muscaria spores are in the place.

Have a look at "The Mummies of Urumchi" by Barber. People buried in
the cold dry alkaline deserts during winter had their bodies freeze
dried. There are several times the mummies  in the deserts of Central
Asia as there are in Egypt, and they are in much better condition.
Barber, an archeo fabrics expert, shows us how people in China wore
wool from European sheep, woven in Twill, (which the Chinese never
did) in plaid, and even in classic Celtic Tartan.

But they wrote Tocharian in the same Sanskrit font you know. For a
long time, the Pre-eminent city, Kucha, was like a college town, with
Vedic, Confucian, Taoist, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Manichean, and other
sacred texts that were being translated from among 20 languages that
include standard Brama Sanskrit. So, who getsta decide what a text
means? what does it mean to someone who is familiar with so many other
literate traditions, and not limited to the Dravidian illiterate, or
any other local peasant tradition?

And in addition, what does it mean to someone who uses a sacred potion
to speed the transfer to an altered state of consciousness? Ugarit
Shamen still make a sacred potion from Amanita Muscraia. Which I have
tried, and recommend. Are you then going to dismiss their spirutality
as "druggies"? They've only been doing this for thousands of years.
Their 'pagan' grave markers are still seen in the boonies of Finland.

Ethnobotanist Wasson, who reported on their recipe, suggested that
there was a North South drug trade, a 'Soma Road' to India. Well, the
above two Ashrams are on that route. Satellite imagery revealed the
pattern of roads to a central point in Uzbekistan, and sure enuf,
there's a great city that was founded before the Pyramids of Egypt.
This is where the Vedas were first written Mike. They found a cylinder
seal there from 2400BC with icons on it that look Danubian. You can
get some idea from http://www.prehistory.it/fase2/gradesnica.htm

That writing is 7000 years old. But after the horse, and the great
cities that emerged along the trade routes like tripolye on the
Dneister, 5500 years ago, Sentient beings got to politely discourse
with each other, under the influence of various sacred potions, and
sift thru it all what seemed to make sense no matter what the chemical
state of mind. And they did this for a couple thousand years before
written texts about it ever got to India.

The area has opened up to increasing numbers of expeditions. The
Amazons really did exist, For example: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_amazon/interview.html
Kimball has dug up dozens of women warriors. And you can see how their
clothes are transitional between the Danubians or Tripolye in the
West, and the Tocharians in the East. "The Magi came from the East."
well, this is *that* East. If you can achieve spiritual enlightenment
with meditation, go for it.

But dont give me that superiority bullshit trying to denigrate those
who used sacred potions. It smacks of egoism, not elightenment. Ask
the Dali Lama what he thot of LSD. Your comments sound like a
Christian fundy with the full support of the DEA.