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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / January 2008Wow, "APA" Has A Genetic Basis!
I was always suspicious of the label, but now it seems that Asian Pacific American" may not be only a "geo-political" term! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/world/asia/18islands.html?ref=asia EXCERPT The ancestral relationships of people living in the widely scattered islands of the Pacific Ocean, long a puzzle to anthropologists, may have been solved by a new genetic study, researchers reported Thursday. In an analysis of the DNA of 1,000 individuals from 41 Pacific populations, an international team of scientists found strong evidence showing that Polynesians and Micronesians in the central and eastern islands had almost no genetic relationship to Melanesians, in the western islands like Papua New Guinea and the Bismarck and Solomons archipelagos. The researchers also concluded that the genetic data showed that the Polynesians and Micronesians were most closely related to Taiwan Aborigines and East Asians. They said this supported the view that these migrating seafarers originated in Taiwan and coastal China at least 3,500 years ago. ... Further research to confirm the history of the Pacific diaspora, Dr. Friedlaender said, would require an expansion of genetic tests among people in the Philippines and Indonesia, regions that the migrants presumably passed through after leaving Taiwan more than 3,500 years ago, ultimately reaching as far as Hawaii and Easter Island. The Melanesians, on the other hand, probably arrived on their islands about 35,000 years ago, sometime later than the Aborigines reached Australia. ... The new genetic research, said Patrick V. Kirch, an anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley, who is an authority on Pacific cultures, was "overwhelming biological evidence for a clear population movement out of Southeast Asia and Taiwan to Polynesia." > I was always suspicious of the label, but now it seems that Asian > Pacific American" may not be only a "geo-political" term! [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > cultures, was "overwhelming biological evidence for a clear population > movement out of Southeast Asia and Taiwan to Polynesia." Great article! But I'd still say that APA is still a geo-political term for no other reason that it includes subcontinent Indians. But it's a great article as it illustrates the exciting nature of 21st century science and genetics - it contradicts the 'blank slate' ideology - and illustrates how we're weaved into our concentric webs of ancestry. It'll also be interesting to witness how this play out and how this will drive a stake through late 20th century liberal- sanctioned universalist pseudoscience that everyone's the same and interchangeable. But that's a side point. As they say, "just cuz you're born in a manger doesn't make you a bale of hay." The study you quoted illustrates how genealogy is so very real. It is the neglected vertical aspect of ourselves -- and I might add that in real life, in spite of practically every institution militating against it, the vertical aspect in practical and political matters and seem to consistently trump that horizontal aspect of geographical proximity. As example, blacks and whites have been in living together for a long time. Whatever you think of the sins of white ancestors or the crimes of black descendants, identity politics continue to surface. This point is understandable, even expected, if you look at the phylogenetic ancestral tree - whites and blacks are not the same people, they're far far apart. Yet it is much less understandable if you just look at it like a starry-eyed utopian: geography should explain everything, look, they live together, now why is it that they don't get along? Last, that's why people when they're old crawl back to their roots rather than crawl back to their neighbors (I think). Not all, but many. Many people "rediscover" their heritage; and they continue to love their own children and grandchildren and worship their ancestors way more than they love children and grandchildren of strangers or whorship ancestors of their neighbors - especially if they look different, especially if they speak a different language. That is, even after a lifetime of close, proximal social bonding, geographical neighbors are still often not seen as their own. No, they're not instinctually, not viscerally, one of theirs. In fact in such situations, rife and resource competition etc etc is more the norm. And yes that's all sidetrack. Have to make one last last comment: you X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now not as amazed to see how many overseas (former) Chinese see China in such romantic light from a distance now matter how crappy the country is. Blood is thicker than water. Cheers, RichAsianKid > > I was always suspicious of the label, but now it seems that Asian > > Pacific American" may not be only a "geo-political" term! [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > sanctioned universalist pseudoscience that everyone's the same and > interchangeable. Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and interchangable? We are more the same than different. > But that's a side point. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > > > I was always suspicious of the label, but now it seems that Asian > > > Pacific American" may not be only a "geo-political" term! [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and > interchangable? We are more the same than different. We are mammals first and foremost, yes. Meaning: we're not that different from our animal cousins: territory, hierarchy, kinship. But really, if we're all so universally interchangeable, which then is it so important for screening? Why then is it so important to have a biological & compatible HLA match? > > But that's a side point. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > - Show quoted text - > > Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and > > interchangable? We are more the same than different. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it so important for screening? Why then is it so important to have a > biological & compatible HLA match? RAT, you are more of a gnat than anything else. Go back to your social statistics. > > > Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and > > > interchangable? We are more the same than different. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > RAT, you are more of a gnat than anything else. Go back to your > social statistics. Truth hurts. And I'm sure you' don't need RichAsianKID's advice re: growing up? ;) > > > > Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and > > > > interchangable? We are more the same than different. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Truth hurts. And I'm sure you' don't need RichAsianKID's advice re: > growing up? ;) The truth is, RAT, all your posts are way off-base out to the left field. > > > > > Isn't this the reason for organ transplants, that we are the same and > > > > > interchangable? We are more the same than different. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The truth is, RAT, all your posts are way off-base out to the left > field. Huhhh?? But you never replied meaingfully to the first post either. To quote again and I already replied as follows: > I was always suspicious of the label, but now it seems that Asian > Pacific American" may not be only a "geo-political" term! > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/world/asia/18islands.html?ref=asia > EXCERPT > The ancestral relationships of people living in the widely scattered > islands of the Pacific Ocean, long a puzzle to anthropologists, may > have been solved by a new genetic study, researchers reported > Thursday. > In an analysis of the DNA of 1,000 individuals from 41 Pacific > populations, an international team of scientists found strong evidence > showing that Polynesians and Micronesians in the central and eastern > islands had almost no genetic relationship to Melanesians, in the > western islands like Papua New Guinea and the Bismarck and Solomons > archipelagos. > The researchers also concluded that the genetic data showed that the > Polynesians and Micronesians were most closely related to Taiwan > Aborigines and East Asians. They said this supported the view that > these migrating seafarers originated in Taiwan and coastal China at > least 3,500 years ago. > ... > Further research to confirm the history of the Pacific diaspora, Dr. > Friedlaender said, would require an expansion of genetic tests among [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > about 35,000 years ago, sometime later than the Aborigines reached > Australia. > ... > The new genetic research, said Patrick V. Kirch, an anthropologist at > the University of California, Berkeley, who is an authority on Pacific > cultures, was "overwhelming biological evidence for a clear population > movement out of Southeast Asia and Taiwan to Polynesia." Great article! But I'd still say that APA is still a geo-political term for no other reason that it includes subcontinent Indians. But it's a great article as it illustrates the exciting nature of 21st century science and genetics - it contradicts the 'blank slate' ideology - and illustrates how we're weaved into our concentric webs of ancestry. It'll also be interesting to witness how this play out and how this will drive a stake through late 20th century liberal- sanctioned universalist pseudoscience that everyone's the same and interchangeable. But that's a side point. As they say, "just cuz you're born in a manger doesn't make you a bale of hay." The study you quoted illustrates how genealogy is so very real. It is the neglected vertical aspect of ourselves -- and I might add that in real life, in spite of practically every institution militating against it, the vertical aspect in practical and political matters and seem to consistently trump that horizontal aspect of geographical proximity. As example, blacks and whites have been in living together for a long time. Whatever you think of the sins of white ancestors or the crimes of black descendants, identity politics continue to surface. This point is understandable, even expected, if you look at the phylogenetic ancestral tree - whites and blacks are not the same people, they're far far apart. Yet it is much less understandable if you just look at it like a starry-eyed utopian: geography should explain everything, look, they live together, now why is it that they don't get along? Last, that's why people when they're old crawl back to their roots rather than crawl back to their neighbors (I think). Not all, but many. Many people "rediscover" their heritage; and they continue to love their own children and grandchildren and worship their ancestors way more than they love children and grandchildren of strangers or whorship ancestors of their neighbors - especially if they look different, especially if they speak a different language. That is, even after a lifetime of close, proximal social bonding, geographical neighbors are still often not seen as their own. No, they're not instinctually, not viscerally, one of theirs. In fact in such situations, rife and resource competition etc etc is more the norm. And yes that's all sidetrack. Have to make one last last comment: you X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now not as amazed to see how many overseas (former) Chinese see China in such romantic light from a distance now matter how crappy the country is. Blood is thicker than water. Cheers, RichAsianKid * * * * Just to remind you the following. In China especially but in other parts of the Far East as well, even if you're American if you are phenotypically Asian you're still one of them. You may hate it, you may love it. Either way it exists. That illustrates the vertical aspect of belonging, of ancestry that most people in the world take for granted. Can you imagine if an Mbuti Pygmy is to immigrant to Sweden and after 10 years he's suddenly a blonde Nordic Swede? No sir, that cannot be done. He may become a Swedish citizen, but to imagine that he can just blend in perfect to Swede society requires that much more faith. The mainland Chinese think the same way. Take for instance: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/03/25/1111692629223.html?from=top "How come the United States selects a female chimpanzee as Secretary of State?" "This black woman thinks rather a lot of herself." "She's so ugly she's losing face. Even a dog would be put off its dinner while she's being fed." Bwahahahahaa!!!! And in the context of this thread, it's the heritable vertical aspect of relatedness that's more interesting than the accidental horizontal ones. > Have to make one last last comment: you > X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now > not as amazed to see how many overseas (former) Chinese see China in > such romantic light from a distance now matter how crappy the country > is. Blood is thicker than water. That put China on par with Europe. Just as crappy. Blood is thicker than water, indeed. > > Have to make one last last comment: you > > X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Blood is thicker than water, indeed. I think by mentioning China and Europe in the same breath is really an ignominious insult to Europe, even East Europe!! For many East European countries that we think are poor (e.g. Russia, Poland, Hungary etc.) are actually much richer than China in terms of per capita PPP. And much more educated too. I should not, parenthetically, that this halo effect, this European aura, permeates every day life in China and I think it reveals about a people's cultural zeitgeist. See this excerpt from a very readable book called "The Cult of The Luxury Brand": Quote: "One brand manager explained: the perception is how can the Chinese worker, who was a peasant yesterday, make a fine luxury product? It is not even conceivable. The French worker is better than the Chinese one in the mind of the Chinese consumer." * * * * * "Why Do Chinese Love Western Brands?" As with most other things in China, there is a paradox to unscramble. On the one hand there is immense pride in being Chinese and jubilation that China is finally taking its rightful place in the center of the universe; on the other, there is an obvious admiration of Western objects. The market for imported goods wouldn't be growing at this dramatic pace but for an immense hankering of Western brands. As we saw, ask the nation's richest men to name their favorite brands and you get a list of Western makes. Ask teenagers to name their coolest brands and there is not a single mention of a Chinese company in the top 10. The reason? In a country where projecting status as a central theme, Western luxury brands do it best. To an extent this is a theoretical discussion as there are hardly any local luxury brands, but even if they were, it's unlikely the Chinese consumer would go for them with the same gusto. It's the Westernness of luxury brands - and the ideals of prestige and worlds best they represent- that is central to their appeal. Perhaps the most extreme example of the lure of Westernness comes from the growing popularity of Western wedding gowns all over China. In a delightful study of Chinese Muslim bride in Xi'an, anthropologist Maris Gillette found that these young women abandon traditional conservative rules of propriety in dress and risk angering their elders, but still they go ahead and don body hugging, low-cut western wedding gowns. These gowns stand for modernity, sophistication, and affluence and allow these brides to announce to the world that's what they represent themselves. For that day at least, they're participating in the international fashion world." We asked Gu Ming why the Chinese addition of Elle consistently chooses to use Western models on its cover rather than local ones. Her view confirms what the Xi'an brides so graphically demonstrate: Western brands say "I'm up to date, young, and cool"and that's what counts. With China becoming the manufacturing base for just about everything in the world, including some Western luxury brands, pointed situations arise. Will the Chinese consumer buy Western luxe that is made in China? The answer is no, at least for now. Pierre Cardin, the master licensor and pioneer in China, make waves in the early 1980s as a luxury brand, but when people discovered he had a factory in China they said no thank you, this is for "countryside people". One brand manager explained: the perception is how can the Chinese worker, who was a peasant yesterday, make a fine luxury product? It is not even conceivable. The French worker is better than the Chinese one in the mind of the Chinese consumer. The classic country of origin effect at work. In one of the sweet ironies of life, managers of European brands in China are specifying that only product made in Italy or France be shipped to them, even if the brand also has a production facility in the middle Kingdom. (!) A strange tug of war takes place in the mind of Chinese consumers. At one level there is an acknowledgment that Western is more desirable and there is a rush to adopt its culture-whether it's nightclubs blaring Western pop, or the Western styles of clothing, or the trendy cafes, bars, and restaurants that the cool crowd collects at-and it certainly helps your image to have a Caucasian boyfriend dangling on your arm while you clutch your Chanel purse. At another level, the thinking goes, "if I buy you, then I'm superior." If a lovely French saleswoman plying the French brand is showering you with sweet attention, then who's boss? In fact one store manager we talked to brings out her beautiful female European assistant every time the male Chinese customer walks in, and apparently the ploy is extremely effective. Chinese men, it seems, are fond of more than Western brands." > > > Have to make one last last comment: you > > > X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now > > > not as amazed to see how many overseas (former) Chinese see China in > > > such romantic light from a distance now matter how crappy the country > > > is. Blood is thicker than water. > > That put China on par with Europe. Just as crappy. > > Blood is thicker than water, indeed. > I think by mentioning China and Europe in the same breath is really an > ignominious insult to Europe, even East Europe ! Really ? When was the last time you've been to Europe ? Or are you still living in your dream ? In China, they don't have muslim boys burning cars and rioting, like what is happening in France. In China, they don't have muslim boys blowing up subway stations, like what has happened to London. In China, they don't have muslim demanding that the Catholics let them pray in the Catholic Cathedral, like what is happening to the Cathedral of Cordoba in Spain. Yep. Europe is fast turning in to an Islamic continent. Are you awake yet, kiddo ? > > I think by mentioning China and Europe in the same breath is really an > > ignominious insult to Europe, even East Europe ! [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Are you awake yet, kiddo ? You have to talk to RAT with statistical numbers. Otherwise, he has no idea what you are talking about, like Eastern Europeans have IQ of 100 while the Chinese have IQ of 110. > > > > Have to make one last last comment: you > > > > X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Are you awake yet, kiddo ? But you're forgetting that the Muslims are only their to contribute. Diversity is strength, no? And they want to "offer sharia law to Britain" -- see this Jan 23/2008 article: * * * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/20/nsharia_120.xml 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain' By Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones Last Updated: 1:59am GMT 23/01/2008 Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes. Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones report on demands by senior Muslims that sharia be given legal authority. * * * Still.....the mainland Chinese are still dirt poor by European standards. Many seek refuge in Chinatowns which already offer higher levels of living compared to back home - one Euro is already over 10 Chinese Yuan RMB! I don't know much about Islam income in Europe, but the corresponding situation I bet is that an average American black in America makes more than an average mainland Chinese? Think - Mexicans in Mexico with a GDP per capita higher than China are struggling - sometimes literally dying - to get into the states as illegal aliens. Even at their low depressed rages and where some exploit them in the black market, it's still heaven compared to back home. > > > > > Have to make one last last comment: you > > > > > X-posted this to soc.culture.china. Well. I have to say that I'm now [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > But you're forgetting that the Muslims are only their to contribute. > Diversity is strength, no? Next time when you go to Europe, please go to the rioting Muslims and give your car to them. I'm sure you'll enjoy the "strength of diversity" when they torch your car. In fact, I'm sure you'll fell in love with them ! |
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