a question for the steven pinker fanboys
|
|
Thread rating:  |
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 00:15 GMT why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt he have a go at dante, donne, cervantes, socrates, plato and not just at rousseau? why stop at virginia woolf when you can have a munch at anything from dewey to jesus to alexandria's great-library to economics to law to chemistry to advertisments all the way to sheep- shagging scotsmen?
is it cuz he thinks that'll get his book accepted by the masses- hungering editors, to please a capitalist mass that's been just as inclined as the next at doing tabula rasa social engineering?
Immortalist - 21 Apr 2008 05:50 GMT > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > economics to law to chemistry to advertisments all the way to sheep- > shagging scotsmen? Post-modernism and romanticism were major movements and excellent places to start a critique on theories of human nature and instinct. Whatever boundries that confined Pinker to begin with these two movements is probably not for sales mainly. But please point out what you specifically agree or disagree with. If you have read the entire book it seems like you would see that he covers about everyone in his "dogmas-R-us" approach; Marx to Frued to....
- Post/Modernism is Based on False Theory of Human Psychology, Beauty is Dirty Word
ONCE WE RECOGNIZE what modernism and postmodernism have done to the elite arts and humanities, the reasons for their decline and fall become all too obvious. The movements are based on a false theory of human psychology, the Blank Slate. They fail to apply their most vaunted ability-stripping away pretense-to themselves. And they take all the fun out of art!
Modernism and postmodernism cling to a theory of perception that was rejected long ago: that the sense organs present the brain with a tableau of raw colors and sounds and that everything else in perceptual experience is a learned social construction.
Nor does innate organization stop at apprehending the physical structure of the world. It also colors our visual experience with universal emotions and aesthetic pleasures. Young children prefer calendar landscapes to pictures of deserts and forests, and babies as young as three months old gaze longer at a pretty face than at a plain one. Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones, and two-year-olds embark on a lifetime of composing and appreciating narrative fiction when they engage in pretend play.
When we perceive the products of other people's behavior, we evaluate them through our intuitive psychology, our theory of mind. We do not take a stretch of language or an artifact like a product or work of art at face value, but try to guess why the producers came out with them and what effect they hope to have on us (as we saw in Chapter 12). Of course, people can be taken in by a clever liar, but they are not trapped in a false world of words and images and in need of rescue by postmodernist artists.
Modernist and postmodernist artists and critics fail to acknowledge another feature of human nature that drives the arts: the hunger for status, especially their own hunger for status. As we saw, the psychology of art is entangled with the psychology of esteem, with its appreciation of the rare, the sumptuous, the virtuosic, and the dazzling. The problem is that whenever people seek rare things, entrepreneurs make them less rare, and whenever a dazzling performance is imitated, it can become commonplace. The result is the perennial turnover of styles in the arts. The psychologist Colin Martindale has documented that every art form increases in complexity, ornamentation, and emotional charge until the evocative potential of the style is fully exploited. Attention then turns to the style itself, at which point the style gives way to a new one. Martindale attributes this cycle to habituation on the part of the audience, but it also comes from the desire for attention on the part of the artists.
...In twentieth-century art, the search for the new new thing became desperate because of the economies of mass production and the affluence of the middle class. As cameras, art reproductions, radios, records, magazines, movies, and paperbacks became affordable, ordinary people could buy art by the carload. It is hard to distinguish oneself as a good artist or discerning connoisseur if people are up to their ears in the stuff, much of it of reasonable artistic merit. The problem for artists is not that popular culture is so bad but that it is so good, at least some of the time. Art could no longer confer prestige by the rarity or excellence of the works themselves, so it had to confer it by the rarity of the powers of appreciation. As Bourdieu points out, only a special elite of initiates could get the point of the new works of art. And with beautiful things spewing out of printing presses and record plants, distinctive works need not be beautiful. Indeed, they had better not be, because now any schmo could have beautiful things.
One result is that modernist art stopped trying to appeal to the senses. On the contrary, it disdained beauty as saccharine and lightweight...elite art could no longer be appreciated without a support team of critics and theoreticians.
...Modern Art has become completely literary: the paintings and other works exist only to illustrate the text...the theory upstaged the subject matter and became a genre of performance art in itself. Postmodernist scholars...distrust the demand for "linguistic transparency" because it hobbles the ability "to think the world more radically" and puts a text in danger of being turned into a mass- market commodity...
As with so many ideas in social science, the centrality of language is taken to extremes in deconstructionism, postmodernism, and other relativist doctrines. The writings of oracles like Jacques Derrida are studded with such aphorisms as "No escape from language is possible," "Text is self-referential," "Language is power," and "There is nothing outside the text." Similarly, J. Hillis Miller wrote that "language is not an instrument or tool in man's hands, a submissive means of thinking. Language rather thinks man and his 'world'... if he will allow it to do so." The prize for the most extreme statement must go to Roland Barthes, who declared, "Man does not exist prior to language, either as a species or as an individual."
The ancestry of these ideas is said to be from linguistics, though most linguists believe that deconstructionists have gone off the deep end. The original observation was that many words are defined in part by their relationship to other words. For example, he is defined by its contrast with I, you, they, and she, and big makes sense only as the opposite of little. And if you look up words in a dictionary, they are defined by other words, which are defined by still other words, until the circle is completed when you get back to a definition containing the original word. Therefore, say the deconstructionists, language is a self-contained system in which words have no necessary connection to reality. And since language is an arbitrary instrument, not a medium for communicating thoughts or describing reality, the powerful can use it to manipulate and oppress others. This leads in turn to an agitation for linguistic reforms: neologisms like co or na that would serve as gender-neutral pronouns, a succession of new terms for racial minorities, and a rejection of standards of clarity in criticism and scholarship (for if language is no longer a window onto thought but the very stuff of thought, the metaphor of "clarity" no longer applies).
Like all conspiracy theories, the idea that language is a prisonhouse denigrates its subject by overestimating its power. Language is the magnificent faculty that we use to get thoughts from one head to another, and we can co-opt it in many ways to help our thoughts along. But it is not the same as thought, not the only thing that separates humans from other animals, not the basis of all culture, and not an inescapable prisonhouse, an obligatory agreement, the limits of our world, or the determiner of what is imaginable...
Inborn human desires are a nuisance to those with Utopian and totalitarian visions, which often amount to the same thing. What stands in the way of most Utopias is not pestilence and drought but human behavior. So Utopians have to think of ways to control behavior, and when propaganda doesn't do the trick, more emphatic techniques are tried. The Marxist Utopians of the twentieth century, as we saw, needed a tabula rasa free of selfishness and family ties and used totalitarian measures to scrape the tablets clean or start over with new ones. As Bertolt Brecht said of the East German government, "If the people did not do better the government would dismiss the people and elect a new one." Political philosophers and historians who have recently "reflected on our ravaged century," such as Isaiah Berlin, Kenneth Minogue, Robert Conquest, Jonathan Glover, James Scott, and Daniel Chirot, have pointed to Utopian dreams as a major cause of twentieth-century nightmares. For that matter, Wordsworth's revolutionary France, "thrilled with joy" while human nature was "born again," turned out to be no picnic either.
It's not just behaviorists and Stalinists who forgot that a denial of human nature may have costs in freedom and happiness. Twentieth- century Marxism was part of a larger intellectual current that has been called Authoritarian High Modernism: the conceit that planners could redesign society from the top down using "scientific" principles. The architect Le Corbusier, for example, argued that urban planners should not be fettered by traditions and tastes, since they only perpetuated the overcrowded chaos of the cities of his day. "We must build places where mankind will be reborn," he wrote. "Each man will live in an ordered relation to the whole." In Le Corbusier's Utopia, planners would begin with a "clean tablecloth" (sound familiar?) and mastermind all buildings and public spaces to service "human needs." They had a minimalist conception of those needs: each person was thought to require a fixed amount of air, heat, light, and space for eating, sleeping, working, commuting, and a few other activities. It did not occur to Le Corbusier that intimate gatherings with family and friends might be a human need, so he proposed large communal dining halls to replace kitchens. Also missing from his list of needs was the desire to socialize in small groups in public places, so he planned his cities around freeways, large buildings, and vast open plazas, with no squares or crossroads in which people would feel comfortable hanging out to schmooze. Homes were "machines for living," free of archaic inefficiencies like gardens and ornamentation, and thus were efficiently packed together in large, rectangular housing projects.
Le Corbusier was frustrated in his aspiration to flatten Paris, Buenos Aires, and Rio de Janeiro and rebuild them according to his scientific principles. But in the 1950s he was given carte blanche to design Chandigarh, the capital of the Punjab, and one of his disciples was given a clean tablecloth for Brasilia, the capital of Brazil. Today, both cities are notorious as uninviting wastelands detested by the civil servants who live in them. Authoritarian High Modernism also led to the "urban renewal" projects in many American cities during the 1960s that replaced vibrant neighborhoods with freeways, high-rises, and empty windswept plazas...
The Blank Slate - The Modern Denial of Human Nature Steven Pinker http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670031518/qid=1086630363/ http://alumweb.mit.edu/opendoor/200205/pinker.shtml
http://www.meaningoflife.tv/video.php?speaker=pinker&topic=goodwogod
- The Noble Savage - Romanticism
THE BLANK SLATE is often accompanied by two other doctrines, which have also attained a sacred status in modern intellectual life. My label for the first of the two is commonly attributed to the philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712-1778), though it really comes from John Dryden's The Conquest of Granada, published in 1670:
I am as free as Nature first made man, Ere the base laws of servitude began, When wild in woods the noble savage ran.
The concept of the noble savage was inspired by European colonists' discovery of indigenous peoples in the Americas, Africa, and (later) Oceania. It captures the belief that humans in their natural state are selfless, peaceable, and untroubled, and that blights such as greed, anxiety, and violence are the products of civilization. In 1755 Rousseau wrote:
So many authors have hastily concluded that man is naturally cruel, and requires a regular system of police to be reclaimed; whereas nothing can be more gentle than him in his primitive state, when placed by nature at an equal distance from the stupidity of brutes and the pernicious good sense of civilized man....
The more we reflect on this state, the more convinced we shall be that it was the least subject of any to revolutions, the best for man, and that nothing could have drawn him out of it but some fatal accident, which, for the public good, should never have happened. The example of the savages, most of whom have been found in this condition, seems to confirm that mankind was formed ever to remain in it, that this condition is the real youth of the world, and that all ulterior improvements have been so many steps, in appearance towards the perfection of individuals, but in fact towards the decrepitness of the species.
First among the authors that Rousseau had in mind was Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679), who had presented a very different picture:
Hereby it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man....
In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
Hobbes believed that people could escape this hellish existence only by surrendering their autonomy to a sovereign person or assembly. He called it a leviathan, the Hebrew word for a monstrous sea creature subdued by Yahweh at the dawn of creation.
Much depends on which of these armchair anthropologists is correct. If people are noble savages, then a domineering leviathan is unnecessary. Indeed, by forcing people to delineate private property for the state to recognize-property they might otherwise have shared-the leviathan creates the very greed and belligerence it is designed to control. A happy society would be our birthright; all we would need to do is eliminate the institutional barriers that keep it from us. If, in contrast, people are naturally nasty, the best we can hope for is an uneasy truce enforced by police and the army. The two theories have implications for private life as well. Every child is born a savage (that is, uncivilized), so if savages are naturally gentle, childrearing is a matter of providing children with opportunities to develop their potential, and evil people are products of a society that has corrupted them. If savages are naturally nasty, then childrearing is an arena of discipline and conflict, and evil people are showing a dark side that was insufficiently tamed.
The actual writings of philosophers are always more complex than the theories they come to symbolize in the textbooks. In reality, the views of Hobbes and Rousseau are not that far apart. Rousseau, like Hobbes, believed (incorrectly) that savages were solitary, without ties of love or loyalty, and without any industry or art (and he may have out-Hobbes'd Hobbes in claiming they did not even have language). Hobbes envisioned-indeed, literally drew-his leviathan as an embodiment of the collective will, which was vested in it by a kind of social contract; Rousseau's most famous work is called The Social Contract, and in it he calls on people to subordinate their interests to a "general will."
Nonetheless, Hobbes and Rousseau limned contrasting pictures of the state of nature that have inspired thinkers in the centuries since. No one can fail to recognize the influence of the doctrine of the Noble Savage in contemporary consciousness. We see it in the current respect for all things natural (natural foods, natural medicines, natural childbirth) and the distrust of the man-made, the unfashionability of authoritarian styles of childrearing and education, and the understanding of social problems as repairable defects in our institutions rather than as tragedies inherent to the human condition.
The Blank Slate - The Modern Denial of Human Nature Steven Pinker http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670031518/qid=1086630363/ http://alumweb.mit.edu/opendoor/200205/pinker.shtml
> is it cuz he thinks that'll get his book accepted by the masses- > hungering editors, to please a capitalist mass that's been just as > inclined as the next at doing tabula rasa social engineering? sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 06:39 GMT > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > - Post/Modernism is Based on False Theory of Human Psychology, Beauty > is Dirty Word he doesnt have sufficient knowledge of the humanities, or guts, to point out that tabula rasa is all the humanities have been doing for ages, waaaaaaaaaay before post and modernism. truth is there's very little difference between renaissance, enlightenment and existentialist modernism. they all depend on each other to exist and do the same amount of tabula rasa; there is no difference between dante and sartre, between tolstoy and baudrillard and ALL philosophy is one footnote after the next in post-plato land. ive read bits of the extremely repetitive modern denial of human nature and ive read the also extremely repetitive social sciences as sorcery and both dont dare attack the classics and place the blame on les moderns.
Immortalist - 21 Apr 2008 21:05 GMT > > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the also extremely repetitive social sciences as sorcery and both dont > dare attack the classics and place the blame on les moderns. Your saying that all people in the humanities have always implied that there are no inborn biases, slight or strong, which cloud our decisions and that absolutely everything humans do is completely learned from scratch? No inborn sex drive, that it is all learned? Thats hard to believe.
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 06:49 GMT > > > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > learned from scratch? No inborn sex drive, that it is all learned? > Thats hard to believe. well as i've just pointed out, thats a strawman out of the modernists and postmodernists when you can find equal strawmen in the ones that came before, in fact in anyone who writes.
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 06:41 GMT > romanticism and as for Romanticism, what does more tabula rasa? the greeks or the judeo-christians? come on.
Immortalist - 21 Apr 2008 21:11 GMT > > romanticism > > and as for Romanticism, what does more tabula rasa? the greeks or the > judeo-christians? come on. Tabula rasa just means "no inborn human nature with instinctual biases" it means our biases are simply learned and any neural substrate is shaped by events not genes. If thats a fair definition both greeks and christians are anti-tabula rasa, plato with his forms and apostle paul with the "sinful flesh."
Romanticism is an artistic, literary, and intellectual movement that originated around the middle of the 18th century in Western Europe, during the Industrial Revolution. It was partly a revolt against aristocratic, social, and political norms of the Enlightenment period and a reaction against the scientific rationalization of nature in art and literature. It stressed strong emotion as a source of aesthetic experience, placing new emphasis on such emotions as trepidation, horror, and the awe experienced in confronting the sublimity of untamed nature. It elevated folk art, nature and custom, as well as arguing for an epistemology based on nature, which included human activity conditioned by nature in the form of language, custom and usage. It was influenced by ideas of the Enlightenment and elevated medievalism and elements of art and narrative perceived to be from the medieval period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism
Romanticism can be seen as a rejection of the precepts of order, calm, harmony, balance, idealization, and rationality that typified Classicism in general and late 18th-century Neoclassicism in particular. It was also to some extent a reaction against the Enlightenment and against 18th-century rationalism and physical materialism in general. Romanticism emphasized the individual, the subjective, the irrational, the imaginative, the personal, the spontaneous, the emotional, the visionary, and the transcendental.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9083836/Romanticism
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 06:48 GMT > > > romanticism > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > aristocratic, social, and political norms of the Enlightenment period > and a reaction against the scientific rationalization what's reason? slogging throu 500 pages of karl pooper aint reason.
of nature in art
> and literature. It stressed strong emotion as a source of aesthetic > experience, placing new emphasis on such emotions as trepidation, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > medievalism and elements of art and narrative perceived to be from the > medieval period. it recovered greek epistemology in extremely similar strategies to those of renaissance and enlightenment strategies.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism > > Romanticism can be seen as a rejection of the precepts of order, calm, > harmony, balance, idealization, and rationality you ever had a girlfriend neurotically obsessed with keeping the house clean?
that typified
> Classicism in general and late 18th-century Neoclassicism you ever suffered throu 8 hours a day childhood violinists and had to bore the sh.ts out of your skull with sad-arse ingres? ever dealt with neurotic techniphiles who just happen to be- as in tabula rasa, the meaning of happen to be- obsessed with drawing accurately? ever dealt with these perfectionist weirdoes of classicism in a classroom?
in
> particular. It was also to some extent a reaction against the > Enlightenment and against 18th-century rationalism and physical [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9083836/Romanticism not enough knowledge of the humanities and a blatantly obvious agenda. which one is pinker's?
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 06:46 GMT > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > vaunted ability-stripping away pretense-to themselves. And they take > all the fun out of art! that's pathetic. try slogging throu gothic caligraphy and renaissance weirdoes.
> Modernism and postmodernism cling to a theory of perception that was > rejected long ago: that the sense organs present the brain with a > tableau of raw colors and sounds and that everything else in > perceptual experience is a learned social construction. oh so what if goethe said this or that, if he said this or that its cuz nebrija or sir thomas elyot said that or this. come on. and im not reading anymore of your enormous quotes, nor anymore of that enormous book cuz reading one sh.t always means not reading another.
Immortalist - 21 Apr 2008 21:26 GMT > > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > reading anymore of your enormous quotes, nor anymore of that enormous > book cuz reading one sh.t always means not reading another. I think you should read the book to the end and then read it again until you master the complete kalidascope of "dogmas" against human nature. Be strong, if your position is right it should not effect you and you will be more prepared to give and answer unto those that challenge your preferences.
It might be better for you to take a break and read "ridely" -nature- via-nurture- retitled "the agile-gene" for a presentation that considers the influence of both learning and instinct. I agree that the blank slate by pinker can be confusing if you don't have a clear understaning of the interactions of instinct and culture. Check this out of the library and speed read it, garunteed antidote to your problemo;
Nature Via Nurture: Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human by Matt Ridley http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Via-Nurture-Genes-Experience/dp/0060006781
Renamed but the exact same book in later editions to;
The Agile Gene: How Nature Turns on Nurture by Matt Ridley http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Gene-Nature-Turns-Nurture/dp/B000GYI1HO/
How Nature Turns On Nurture - Matt Ridley Lecture, Princeton, 2005 61 minutes bro http://tinyurl.com/3hnkkd
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 06:56 GMT > > > > why does he have a go at the postmodernists for doing tabula rasa when > > > > that's all art/literary rhetoric has done for milleniums? why doesnt [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > How Nature Turns On Nurture - Matt Ridley Lecture, Princeton, 2005 61 > minutes brohttp://tinyurl.com/3hnkkd i think i''ve given the book its chance and there's too much stuff to do in the world, too many hobbies n bitches to spend more time with a book that didnt confuse me- i just found it extremely repetitive, full of strawmen and with one huge laugh that i recall- when compared to a bug, he says *nobody* knows how many thingies a gene has- btw, not even he. plus why should humanists (and post-humanists, the same thing) give a sh.t about tabula rasa?
where exactly does this philosopher find such relief in the enlightenment? apart from being a nice soothingly cool sounding word, that is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment
David Oberman - 21 Apr 2008 17:46 GMT >Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones Me, too, gaga.
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 19:11 GMT > >Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones > > Me, too, gaga. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk
David Oberman - 21 Apr 2008 19:51 GMT >> >Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones >> >> Me, too, gaga. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI42LSbwc8E&feature=related
Immortalist - 21 Apr 2008 21:28 GMT > sirbl...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> >Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI42LSbwc8E&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdfvWAp5GUw
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 06:58 GMT > sirbl...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> >Babies prefer consonant musical intervals over dissonant ones [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI42LSbwc8E&feature=related bloody rhetoric.
James Whitehead - 21 Apr 2008 18:04 GMT >Modernist and postmodernist artists and critics fail to acknowledge >another feature of human nature that drives the arts: the hunger for >status, especially their own hunger for status. Wrong - plenty of examples from Picasso through Van Gough (changed name for US consumption) to our Damien-
"I cant wait to get into a position to make really bad art and get away with it.."
sirblob2@hotmail.com - 21 Apr 2008 19:12 GMT oh every1s been doing that- including those cicero quoting ''enlightened humanists'' and biologists for thousands of years
On 21 abr, 19:04, "James Whitehead" <ja...@somewhereovertherainbow.com> wrote:
> >Modernist and postmodernist artists and critics fail to acknowledge > >another feature of human nature that drives the arts: the hunger for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "I cant wait to get into a position to make really bad art and get away with > it.." James Whitehead - 22 Apr 2008 07:04 GMT Sure - but to acknowledge... rather than Newton's coy "standing on the shoulders..." line - i like the hirst idea of passing off rubbish - recycling?
> oh every1s been doing that- including those cicero quoting > ''enlightened humanists'' and biologists for thousands of years [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> with >> it.." sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 07:07 GMT cure yourself by wading throu enlightenment theses.
On 22 abr, 08:04, "James Whitehead" <ja...@somewhereovertherainbow.com> wrote:
> Sure - but to acknowledge... rather than Newton's coy "standing on the > shoulders..." line - i like the hirst idea of passing off rubbish - [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >> with > >> it.." James Whitehead - 23 Apr 2008 15:31 GMT disease is necessary
> cure yourself by wading throu enlightenment theses. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> >> with >> >> it.." sirblob2@hotmail.com - 24 Apr 2008 00:56 GMT so are women
On 23 abr, 16:31, "James Whitehead" <ja...@somewhereovertherainbow.com> wrote:
> disease is necessary > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >> >> with > >> >> it.." James Whitehead - 24 Apr 2008 06:58 GMT well they are the source - or have i spelt source wrong?
> so are women > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> >> >> with >> >> >> it.." sirblob2@hotmail.com - 24 Apr 2008 13:45 GMT please im relaxing browsing the web......im the rodney dangerfield of the literary department.
On 24 abr, 07:58, "James Whitehead" <ja...@somewhereovertherainbow.com> wrote:
> well they are the source - or have i spelt source wrong? > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >> >> >> with > >> >> >> it.." sirblob2@hotmail.com - 22 Apr 2008 20:22 GMT come on sociobiologists, you thoughts you could assault the humanities, as if rousseau were the only one to have done tabula rasa... come on chaps prove me wrong, say you've lived 50 years with seinfeld's mom and consider detective monk the very paradigm of enlightenment. come on, ejaculate all that pinker panky bluff.
|
|
|