Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / May 2004

Bullshit.

Mark Folsom

http://www.mcri.org/Shroud.html

I have a tree that is similar to ginko trees from the Triassic era.  So
what?

No one really knows what Jesus looked like.  The early likenesses
of him come from several centuries after his death, and these have
been basically copied up to the present day.   He's
invariably portrayed with long, fairly straight, hair, and
fairly light skin - ie, he doesn't look at all "semitic".
"The Passion", for all its claims to historical accuracy,
follows this tradition.

While there are no real descriptions of Jesus in the Bible,
there is one interesting remark from the Apostle Paul
(1 Corinthians 11:14-15), "Doth not even nature itself teach you,
that, if a man have long hair, it is a *dishonor* to him? but if a
woman have long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is
given her for a covering".  While it wouldn't be the first contradiction
in the Bible, that seems like a really odd remark if Jesus had
indeed had long hair.

Not surprisingly, the shroud matches the historical pictures,
including the long hair - as one would expect from a
forgery.

-E

I never understood how anyone who ever saw the image on the shroud
could believe that it was formed when used as a body wrap.  The shroud
shows head-to-head front and back images of a body.  Let's assume that
Jesus had a normal 3-dimensional body, and was not a flat cardboard
cutout.  Suppose that a shroud were wrapped on his body from the
front, over the top of his head, then down his back.  Now suppose that
somehow an image of his body were transfered to the cloth.  Since his
head was 3-dimensional, some portion of the fabric would be on the top
of his head.  Therefore, some portion of the image would show the top
of his head.  But the shroud if Turin shows the top of the image of
the face touching the image of the back of the head.  No portion of
the image corresponds to the top of the head.  The belief that the
shroud is not a fake is incompatible with the assumption that Jesus
wasn't a cardboard cutout.

Paul Cardinale

Ok.

I'm not a textile expert, but I guess in *theory* this is possible. I
think it would be quite the stretch to suggest that even if the cloth
did have said image, that the image would be necessarily that of Jesus
Christ. It's like finding a 12th century sword with a well-preserved
fingerprint on it, and concluding that the sword must have been King
Arthur's. The more important question is this: how long does it take
such an image to appear. Biblical records claim Jesus was only in his
tomb for three days. Does this give enough time to preserve an image
so well?

It's really something.

I doubt you could get much of that information from the shroud. His
height you could probably estimate based on the length of it (I think
he would probably end up between four or five feet tall, given the
times).

There has been no record of Jesus committing any terrorist acts, in
either biblical or Roman records. I could (and is, often) be argued
that Jesus was a passive-aggressive political instigator against the
Romans, sort of a Ghandi type, but violence? Unlikely. As for
tattoos--well, I doubt that ANY real terrorist would tattoo themself,
now or then, in a way that would incriminate themself.

I don't think blood types correspond to personality in any way to
speak of. The beard and long hair, as others have suggested, are
probably spawns of classical mythology, rather than any real fact.

Not a chance.

I'm not sure where you're drawing this conclusion from.

I'm not sure where you're drawing this conclusion from.

Questionable... the methods they are using to refute the refutation are worse
than the methods they are criticizing..

More news on the Shroud of Turin from the BBC which said that recent
analysis by computer shows a 2nd image on the Shroud. We live in exciting
times because we have a photograph of the man named Jesus who died by
crucifixion.
What will be interesting is what science can find out from this linen cloth
that wrapped Jesus at the time of his death. I wonder if radiocarbon dating
can date accurately when he died. Although the first dating was done on a
corner section of the cloth that was polluted and thus gave a false date of
the 14th century. But I wonder if the linen can be dated where the blood
was and dated precisely as to give a date of when this crucifixion took
place.

I was lucky to see another repeat of the TV show since I catch Iowa,
Nebraska and SouthDakota PBS. I think Dr. Mattingly (excuse the spelling),
a microbiologist is on the truthful path of how the image formed via
microorganisms that leave a polymer residue on linen as they eat up the
blood. So it is this microbial polymer that causes a photographic like
image.

Funny and nice to realize that microbes beat the silver solution as a
photograph by over a millenium of time. Not to say that any photographer is
going to rush into a business enterprize of using microbes instead of
silver-solution. But I would hazard to guess that microbe-photographs may
have some peculiar advantages over the conventional silver solution
photographs. It seems as they microbial photographs have the ability to
make a 3 dimensional effect. Whether that is due to the polymer residue is
unclear.

The other linen cloth, dubbed the "sister cloth" of the Shroud of Turin
rests in Ovendim (spelling) Spain and it is called the "Suderiam"
(spelling). It is a poor linen stained with blood that matches the blood
type of the Shroud of AB which is somewhat rare for it is 3% of the
population.

On this TV show it showed how the Suderiam was used as a face cloth to wipe
the blood or absorb the blood of the face.

So it appears that the Suderiam and Shroud were both used on Jesus and not
as I had written before that the Suderiam may have been used on Barabbas,
the son of Jesus.

In this show it displayed some library where books were kept that mentions
the shroud used on Jesus and dates to about 12th century discussing the odd
4 holes.  Now I wonder if some book discusses in specific details what
happened to Barabbas in those last final days of Jesus's crucifixion.
Because there may exist some shroud or suderiam used on Barabbas and if we
can find such a cloth and test the blood type, since Jesus had AB, and who
knows what Mary Magdalene had but if Barabbas had a specific blood type we
can infer what Mary Magdalene blood type was, assuming she was the wife of
Jesus and the mother of Barabbas.

Also, I wonder if the Shroud or Suderiam has remaining any hair of Jesus.
Hair can last longer than blood. And if hair can survive 2,000 years? If
the Shroud or Suderiam has a hair follicle of Jesus and we can probably run
a genome of the DNA of that hair and if it displays the AB blood type group
would indicate it was the hair of Jesus. So we may be able to resurrect
(sorry, no pun intended) the Genome of Jesus. If we can resurrect the
genome of Jesus would mean that someday in the future we can bring a clone
person to life that was a copy of Jesus of ancient times.

And if we do all of that, and observe this future Jesus copy and if he
turns out to be a "hothead or firebrand personality" would suggest that
Jesus of ancient times was likely a terrorist and not a man of religion.

Another avenue of exploration is whether the Shroud shows any signs of
broken bones or scars incurred likely in war fighting. Or whether
terrorists of ancient Jerusalem made bodily marks showing themselves as
Essene warriors (terrorists).

Also, the facial features of Jesus in the Shroud image looks not typical of
men of that region but more northern european. I suspect Joseph of
Arimethia was born in northern europe (perhaps England) and so maybe the
father that gave birth to Jesus was not the carpenter of Joseph but Joseph
of Arimethia.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium