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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / January 2005



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Origin of Clothing

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Strange Creature - 12 Jan 2005 08:43 GMT
The idea that there is a complete transition from
black to white with no shades in between, is a
phenomenon intrinsic to American history, if not
the Sahara desert.  Basic selection factors at
least as far as I have heard, with respect to
skin color, tend to fall under skin cancer,
vitamin D production, and possible camoflage
during hunting or gathering.

The amount of near ultraviolet radiation that
falls upon the earth, tends to depend relatively
heavily upon the angle that the sun is in the
sky.  A small level of cloud cover will only
scatter and diminish it very slightly, however
a heavy level of cloud cover will often
reduce it to a greater extent.  Also, snow
glare will tend to reflect ultraviolet
radiation off the ground and also magnify the
level of ultraviolet radiation presented by
the environment.  The sun will of course,
produce little ultraviolet radiation at
night.  I am not sure what level of UV
output that a campfire will put forth.

If the universe or at least human civilization,
were not produced only several thousand years
ago, the following from archaeology and
paleontology could also probably be inferred.

Man probably left Africa for at least the
southern part of Eurasia about 1 to 3
million years ago.  There might possibly
have also been some genetic interaction
within the species over time in the
various regions where humans were
present due to the physical migration
of the life form throughout time
from place to place.

Man did not colonize the most northern
parts of Eurasia, at least for during the
highth of the ice ages, if not the
interglacials, until at least the past
50,000 or so years, or only slightly
longer.  Lack of extremely ancient evidence
for man in North and South America might
at least possibly indicate this.

Man did not go on long ocean voyages
until the last 50,000 to 70,000 years
or so.  Lack of extremely ancient
evidence for man in Australia might
tend to indicate this.

Hairlessness might tend to possibly
favor darker skin with regard to
skin cancer.  However, lighter
skin will be able to produce more
vitamin D to protect against rickets,
for those early humans who had not
inferred the immediate idea, of possibly
eating animal livers in order to
compensate.

A thick cotton shirt will produce
about the same level of blockage
of ultraviolet light as relatively
dark skin color will.  Probably
some animal skins or furs would
cut out ultraviolet light
even more.

This produces the question with
regard to how long ago humans
started wearing clothing in northern
climates to protect against heat
loss in winter, and possibly
provide at least a temporary
immediate short term protection
against some, less powerful animal
bites in some areas.

Shoes will help to protect the
feet of humans against sharp
objects while running, however
a heavy skin might also reduce
the speed of a human while
running, and decrease protection
against overheating during
periods of high exertion, unless
they are shedded (which if they
were not highly treated skins,
might also, still be eaten by
predators if one does not return
and recover them fast enough).
Another fundamental problem with
wearing at least animal skins, is
the potential for attracting large
predators from their smell if
they are not treated in some
fashion.

If a human were to wear a large
amount of thick clothing, this
would only leave part of the
body available to to produce
vitamin D from sunlight, disposing
the wearer to possibly become more
susceptible to rickets over time.

The question exists, with regard
to how long, that might have presented
an additional selection pressure upon
humans in northern climates, and what
effects that might have had
upon human physiology among its
different variants.  How far
back did clothing go, within
the archaeological and
paleontological record, as
we now know it?
Uncle Al - 12 Jan 2005 16:16 GMT
> The idea that there is a complete transition from
> black to white with no shades in between, is a
> phenomenon intrinsic to American history, if not
> the Sahara desert.

Bloviating idiot.

>  Basic selection factors at
> least as far as I have heard, with respect to
> skin color, tend to fall under skin cancer,
> vitamin D production, and possible camoflage
> during hunting or gathering.

Gettign pubic hair tangled in low scrub while running from a hyena.

> The amount of near ultraviolet radiation that
> falls upon the earth, tends to depend relatively
> heavily upon the angle that the sun is in the
> sky.
[snip]

Do you have a destination?

> Hairlessness might tend to possibly
> favor darker skin with regard to
> skin cancer.

Have you ever seen a southern East Indian woman naked?  A Sicilian
woman?  A Mediterranean French woman?  The swarthy horrors could be
grown for fur.

[snip]

> How far
> back did clothing go, within
> the archaeological and
> paleontological record, as
> we now know it?

Cavewoman looks into cave stuffed to overflowing with animal pelts "I
have nothing to wear."

Julie Newmar inventng pantihose was a black day for us all.

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

Strange Creature - 13 Jan 2005 00:31 GMT
> Have you ever seen a southern East Indian woman naked?  A Sicilian
> woman?  A Mediterranean French woman?  The swarthy horrors could be
> grown for fur.

Are you one of those persons who sat in the
back of the room in high school and started
hooting when the Biology teacher started
lecturing on homologous chromosomes, or was
that before your time?
Never anonymous Bud - 13 Jan 2005 02:35 GMT
Trying to steal the thunder from Arnold, "Strange Creature" <strangecreature7@yahoo.com>  on 12 Jan 2005 16:31:02 -0800
spoke:
 
>Are you one of those persons who sat in the
>back of the room in high school

You're assuming he GOT that far in school.

Signature

        The truth is out there,

but it's not interesting enough for most people.

Strange Creature - 15 Jan 2005 05:18 GMT
> >Are you one of those persons who sat in the
> >back of the room in high school
>
> You're assuming he GOT that far in school.

I think that Uncle Al is a PhD physicist at a
university in Minnesota.
Androcles - 15 Jan 2005 09:29 GMT
>> >Are you one of those persons who sat in the
>> >back of the room in high school
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I think that Uncle Al is a PhD physicist at a
> university in Minnesota.

Never in a million years.
"Physicist" is a subset of "scientist".
Schwartz is a bigot.
(Bigot  .AND. scientist) = the empty set.

He may be a PhD bigot somewhere, but that's
no recommendation. Some  PhD bigots can't count to 14.

http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/KoksDoppler.htm

Androcles.
Franz Heymann - 20 Jan 2005 22:43 GMT
[snip]

> He may be a PhD bigot somewhere, but that's
> no recommendation. Some  PhD bigots can't count to 14.

And ane of us says C14 decays to C12.

Franz
Ken S. Tucker - 21 Jan 2005 00:00 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> And ane of us says C14 decays to C12.
> Franz

Franz, knowing english is your third or forth
language, is "ane" plural for anus, if so I
ain't part of that "us"!

As a nudist who majored in streaking in college,
I'm well qualified to say that clothes is a
fetish, unless it's cold, or your p-p gets in
the way, when using hammers, saws, blowtorches
etc. while building spears to hunt mammoths,
and that's from memory.
Ken
PS: I meant mammoth mammaries.
Franz Heymann - 21 Jan 2005 16:26 GMT
> > [snip]

> And ane of us says C14 decays to C12.

> Franz, knowing english is your third or forth
> language, is "ane" plural for anus, if so I
> ain't part of that "us"!

My second language.
I pride myself on my inventive typomaking abilities.
Even Androclown should see through that one.

[snip]

Franz
whopkins@csd.uwm.edu - 15 Jan 2005 22:12 GMT
> The idea that there is a complete transition from
> black to white with no shades in between, is a
> phenomenon intrinsic to American history, if not
> the Sahara desert.

There was no Sahara desert until a few thousand years ago.  It was a
semi-tropical green space filled with lakes, rivers and diverse sets of
fauna (giraffes, antelope, elephants, humans, etc), depictions of which
scenery are -- still to this day -- to be found in the middle of the
desert at THOUSANDS of locations in the form of petroglyphs.
tadchem - 21 Jan 2005 19:37 GMT
> The idea that there is a complete transition from
> black to white with no shades in between, is a
> phenomenon intrinsic to American history, if not
> the Sahara desert.

Actually it is at best a rare event and at worst an oversimplification.

> Basic selection factors at
> least as far as I have heard, with respect to
> skin color, tend to fall under skin cancer,
> vitamin D production, and possible camoflage
> during hunting or gathering.

Early humans started breeding at puberty and generally were done by the
time they had lived long enough to develop adult skin cancer - little
selecction pressure there.

Natural camoflage usually involves the development of patterned
pigmentation to confuse the outline (silhouette) or background-matching
coloration.

Vitamin D production (which selects for light skin) would have been
important in climates where sunburn (which selects for dark skin) was
unlikely .

> The amount of near ultraviolet radiation that
> falls upon the earth, tends to depend relatively
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> level of ultraviolet radiation presented by
> the environment.

Local weather and climate is important.  The UV index in Seattle is
*much* lower than it is in Fargo (at about the same latitude) because
the cloud cover at Seattle is almost always *heavy* due to geographical
considerations, while that at Fargo is nearly always light to none -
again for geographic reasons.

> The sun will of course,
> produce little ultraviolet radiation at
> night.

Duh!!! The sun's UV output is nearly constant, 24/7.  You just aren't
*exposed* to it at night.

> I am not sure what level of UV
> output that a campfire will put forth.

There is effectively no UV output from a cool wood flame.

> Man probably left Africa for at least the
> southern part of Eurasia about 1 to 3
> million years ago.

Homo erectus migrants left no surviving descendants.  The earliest
African emigrants to leave surviving descendants left about 70,000 BCE
and moved along the shores of the Indian Ocean to the east, leaving
enclaves along the way (e.g. Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Malaysia, the
Philippines).

> Man did not colonize the most northern
> parts of Eurasia, at least for during the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> for man in North and South America might
> at least possibly indicate this.

The last glaciation of the PLeistocene (about 10,000 to 15,000 years
ago) lowered the sea level 100 +/- 30 meters - enough to permit a
stroll from Siberia to Alaska along the coast.

> Man did not go on long ocean voyages
> until the last 50,000 to 70,000 years
> or so.  Lack of extremely ancient
> evidence for man in Australia might
> tend to indicate this.

The lowered sea levels of the Ice Ages would have allowed foot traffic
from Asia to New Guinea and Australia.

> However, lighter
> skin will be able to produce more
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> eating animal livers in order to
> compensate.

I think it is rather patronizing of you to assume that malnourished
early humans might NOT think to eat every part of the animal they
could.  Two words: "British Cuisine"  They eat tongue, kidneys, blood,
liver, spleen, stomach, heart, 'haggis', etc. - by *tradition*.  The
tradition arose locally; it wasn't imported by the Romans.

> This produces the question with
> regard to how long ago humans
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> against some, less powerful animal
> bites in some areas.

So far there have been no indications in the archaelogical record that
Neanderthals (who lived in northern Europe before the advent of
Cro-Magnons) ever produced clothing.

> a heavy skin might also reduce
> the speed of a human while
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> predators if one does not return
> and recover them fast enough).

It would also be a liability when fishing.  The high prevalence of fish
bones, the total inability of humans to synthesize their own
omega-fatty acids (essential for neurological development) which are
abundant in fish, and the use of perspeiration as a thermoregulation
mechanism would argue for early humans spending a lot of time in/near
water.

> Another fundamental problem with
> wearing at least animal skins, is
> the potential for attracting large
> predators from their smell if
> they are not treated in some
> fashion.

The body odor of unwashed humans would more than compensate.  Even now,
only those predators (Bengal Tigers, wolves, cougars, etc.) that are
unable to find other food and are nearly starving will consider eating
a foul-smelling human.

> If a human were to wear a large
> amount of thick clothing, this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the wearer to possibly become more
> susceptible to rickets over time.

Duh!! Even humans accustomed to northern climes are likely to go nude
in the summer.  They only dress against the cold when it *IS* cold.

> The question exists, with regard
> to how long, that might have presented
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> upon human physiology among its
> different variants.

"Variants?" Do you mean "populations?"  25,000 years is only from 1000
to 2000 generations.  Although this is more than enough to produce
changes in a population when deliberately selective breeding is
involved, it seems scarcely enough to produce a notable change in the
physiology of a species when the stochastic effects of 'natural'
selection are the only effective pressures - unless of course some
punctuated evolution as selective pressure on a single trait (such as
susceptibility to Yersina becteria) becomes predominant.

> How far
> back did clothing go, within
> the archaeological and
> paleontological record, as
> we now know it?

The earliest evidence (so far) for tools specifically used to make
clothing (i.e. needles) is Upper Paleolithic - about 25,000 years ago
(France):
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/sapiens_culture.htm
The earliest fossil rag heap dates to 22,000 years ago (Russia).

This is substantially after the first appearance of Cro-Magnon
('modern') Man.

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
Lucy - 30 Jan 2005 06:27 GMT
I hate to stoop to simplicity, but everything (damned near!) builds nests.
HS puts one on and carries it withhim and changes it daily !

> > The idea that there is a complete transition from
> > black to white with no shades in between, is a
[quoted text clipped - 186 lines]
> Tom Davidson
> Richmond, VA
Lucy - 30 Jan 2005 06:25 GMT
I will bet you are either an Urban Planning Engineer, a City Manager, or

an Investment Banker .... on loan from proeprty management? You do
science
instead of preaching at a church?

> The idea that there is a complete transition from
> black to white with no shades in between, is a
[quoted text clipped - 117 lines]
> paleontological record, as
> we now know it?
 
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