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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Biology / April 2006



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That coffee is good sh.t! - BBC

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Garrison Hilliard - 11 Apr 2006 07:13 GMT
The Philippines' taste for civet coffee
By Sarah Toms
BBC News, Manila  
The Philippines has recently discovered it produces one of the world's most
expensive and coveted kinds of coffee.

But it comes from an unusual source - the droppings of a nocturnal, cat-like
animal called the palm civet.

Civets, related to the mongoose, are usually seen as pests in the Philippines
and hunted for their meat.

But their droppings are worth their weight in gold.

Known locally as alamid, civets are carnivorous but they also have a taste for
the sweet, red coffee cherries that contain the beans.

The beans pass through the civet whole after fermenting in the stomach and
that's what gives the coffee its unique taste and aroma.

'Best-kept secret'

A group of professional coffee lovers followed the trail of the civet droppings
high into the Malarayat mountain range, south of Manila, in search of the exotic
beans.

One of them, Antonio Reyes of the Philippine coffee certifying board, said civet
coffee was one of the Philippines' best-kept secrets.
"I heard the old folks in the coffee farming areas have been gathering this
coffee for their own consumption. They never told people they had this kind of
coffee," he said.

"It goes through some kind of natural processing which you can see from the
roasted beans. It's more oily, there's more aroma and it's such a good taste
that you can get value for money even if the cost is so high."

Civet coffee is one of the world's most expensive. In the Philippines, only 500
kg are produced a year and the roasted beans sell for more than $115 a kilogram.

Bean hunt

Lusina Montenegro, who collects the beans for a living, led the coffee experts
to the civet droppings.

She climbs the mountain in her flip-flops, hunting for the beans in the thick
undergrowth.
"Sometimes it's a big civet and then the droppings are also big, but sometimes
it's a small one and then the droppings are small," she said.

Ms Montenegro puts the droppings in two containers - for the old ones, which
resemble chalky beans, and for the fresh ones, which look like yellow beans in
gravy.

She rinses the beans in forest streams and dries them on her patio before they
are sold on to Bote Central, a company that exports the beans to Japan.

Niche market

The developers of the brand are a husband and wife team, Vie and Basil Reyes.

The couple was involved in conservation work for the sugar palm and the civets
that live among the trees. They made organic vinegar from the palms and started
selling the civet coffee alongside it in small bazaars.

Now the coffee has become so successful they are hoping to start brewing up
profits in Taiwan and North America.

Mr Reyes of the coffee certifying agency also hopes the struggling local coffee
industry can mirror the success Indonesia and Vietnam have enjoyed with their
brands of civet coffee.

"I never thought it was also available in the Philippines, so when I first heard
of it I thought this is one kind of coffee that we can look at and develop," he
said. "If we have the volume then it's good for the niche market."

'Dark chocolate'

Andrew Gross, an Australian roast master, climbed the mountain to find out for
himself what the attraction is of coffee that passes through the backside of a
furry mammal.

Just like a wine connoisseur, he slowly slurped the brewed coffee, letting it
travel across his tongue for the first time.
Mr Gross said he was surprised at how much he liked it, comparing the taste to
fermented plum and dark chocolate with hazelnuts.

"There's obviously some substance to this in terms of what waves I am getting,
but beyond the difference in flavours a lot of it has to do with hype and a lot
of it has to do with the fact that it's fairly rare," he said.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea. But experts here hope coffee lovers will
want to treat themselves to something special that might just help perk up the
Philippine coffee industry.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/4896230.stm

Published: 2006/04/11 04:58:39 GMT
Cordovero - 11 Apr 2006 07:11 GMT
> 'Best-kept secret'

Except on alt.coffee

C
Chon - 11 Apr 2006 09:35 GMT
There are many other countries producing the 'Civet Coffee' as the Palm
Civet lives across S.E.Asia. The coffee is very popular in Sumatra and
Vietnam, where they sell it in coffee stores across the country. You
can get it on ebay over here, and it is superb! very chocolaty and like
rocket fuel... though not the cheapest.
I'd highly reccomend it to anyone.
C

> > 'Best-kept secret'
>
> Except on alt.coffee
>
> C
Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 14:56 GMT
For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and
fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of
any coffee, given the tiny production.  I guess the idea that you literally
"eat sh*t" is too good a story hook to leave alone. Plus it features cute
furry mammals.  A sure winner.  Writing stories about the plight of coffee
farmers or the abysmal quality of supermarket coffee, etc. is just so boring
in comparison.

>> 'Best-kept secret'
>
> Except on alt.coffee
>
> C
shane - 12 Apr 2006 17:59 GMT
Does this stuff even really exist?
I have done a few searches on it and no one really says for sure.

You can't blame your average journalist for writing on it.  Most of
them are intellectually challenged nowadays anyway.  I had wanted to go
into journalism at one point in my life, when I realized how cutthroat
of an occupation it is and how low the average pay is, I came to my
senses and picked a less stressfull occupation.

Shane

> For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and
> fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >
> > C
rnewell@vcn.bc.ca - 12 Apr 2006 18:55 GMT
In alt.coffee shane <shane.olson@juno.com> wrote:
> Does this stuff even really exist?

If you dig far enough back on the internet,
you will find that coffee pooped out by donkey
or burro in Honduras used to be sold as
exotic coffee -- way back in the early nineties.
This hoax has been circulating for over ten years...
And to the best of my knowledge, it is still a hoax.
All they did was change animals.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
www.coffeecrew.com Colin Newell's Daily Grind
rnewell AT vcn DOT bc DOT ca
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Heat + Beans - 12 Apr 2006 19:12 GMT
I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of
our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average"
journalists, sub-minimum wage workers, anyone directly employed by a
government (though not 'our fighting men and women') to name a few.
Most dangerous is the ease with which some will toss off
characterizations about others being "intellectually challenged"  and
the perfectly silly fantasy that people used to be smarter.

BTW, what is the "less stressful occupation" you selected (at high
"average pay") after you came to your presumably "unchallenged" senses?

Martin
shane - 12 Apr 2006 21:02 GMT
Sorry, I did not mean to generalize or offend anyone.  What I meant by
"average" is just that, an exceptional journalist can do quite well,
but then, there are not many people of Mike Wallace caliber.  The
"average" journalist does not make a high salary.
  I mentioned that I had looked into going into journalism, I ended up
going into Information Technology.   In my part of the country, the
average starting IT person makes what the average journalist makes
after several years. There are a lot fewer journalsiam positions and
the competition for them is fierce, hence people are not so nice to
each other trying to work their way up.
  I did work for a college newspaper, and it bothered me to see the
extent to which people would play fast and loose with the actual facts
of a story.  The worst offenders that I knew who did this were good
writers who went into journalism as careers.  So, I was just giving a
generalization based upon my own experiences and frustrations looking
at the sort of things that journalists think of as good stories.   Have
any of the stories about animal dung coffee been verified by any
credible sources?

Shane

> I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of
> our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Martin
Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 21:31 GMT
On the one hand, it's impossible to make generalizations, because each
individual (reporter, sack of coffee, human being, etc.) is different. OTOH,
making generalizations is what we do as humans and they provide a useful
framework - stereotypes wouldn't have any power to offend or amuse us if
they didn't have any relation to reality  (e.g. if I say "most Chinese
people have a great sense of rhythm and therefore excel at jazz music"  or
"most reporters I know are really good at calculus", all I will get is a
puzzled look).  Usually if people are offended by a stereotype, it's because
they perceive it to contain more than a grain of truth, not because it is
totally false.  Consider your sense of offense below in that light and think
about why you are so offended by these stereotypes - if you thought them to
be completely false in all cases, would you be offended?

> I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of
> our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Martin
Heat + Beans - 12 Apr 2006 22:39 GMT
"Usually if people are offended by a stereotype, it's because
they perceive it to contain more than a grain of truth, not because it
is
totally false."

Jack, this is certainly a novel way of looking at stereotypes. IMO,
much of the world's unpleasantness occurs when people generalize from a
"grain" of truth (a curious concept in itself) into a smear of an
entire category.  Yes, it's a human tendency, but not all of our
tendencies are admirable.  "Completely false in all cases"  is a mighty
steep threshold ---and I've tried to follow the logical track that
train travels on.  To no avail.

IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely
reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting.
Happily, Shane's longer critique of journalists is interesting,
particularlistic (both to himself and to journalists),  and moves him
some distance from calling "most of them ...intellectually challenged."

Martin
Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 23:41 GMT
Generally speaking (there are those words again) in our society the very
top talent is not attracted to J- school (vs. law, medicine, engineering,
etc.) In the past, reporting was a blue collar job (think The Front Page)
but nowadays it seems to attract English majors with an ideological agenda.

> IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely
> reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Martin
shane - 13 Apr 2006 02:19 GMT
> IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely
> reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Martin

This brings up an interesting thought, what is the reason for getting
distorted news and superficial reporting?    I suppose one thing is
that news is a business and sensational news is easier to write and
sell.  Selling is how one makes money.
  I have know really good news people and not so good ones.  I do
think the idea that journalism attracts idealistic English majors is
accurate as many of the people I have run across are idealistic.

Shane
Steve Ackman - 13 Apr 2006 08:46 GMT
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.coffee.]

> This brings up an interesting thought, what is the reason for getting
> distorted news and superficial reporting?    I suppose one thing is
> that news is a business and sensational news is easier to write and
> sell.  Selling is how one makes money.

 Fiction sells better than dead air (or blank
paper), AND fiction is easier and quicker than
investigating and/or fact checking.

 When my brother and his wife died in a small aircraft
crash, a TV personality came around looking for some
crying relatives I guess.  I didn't feel like talking,
so the "reporter" just made stuff up.  

 What aired was 50% facts that had already aired, 30%
total fabrication, and 20% nothing at all... you know,
shock from the neighbors 1/4 mile down the road,
"Oh, we just can't believe they're gone... Well, we
didn't know them at all, but they'd wave if we were
out when they drove by.  They seemed like nice people,
and they'll really be missed."

 Journalism is about coming up with enough column
inches or enough minutes by deadline.  It's a plus
if they're engaging, a minus if they get the station
or paper sued.  Anything between those extremes is
still a paycheck.
Brent - 13 Apr 2006 03:34 GMT
The article is a transcript of a radio report - he really did talk to Andrew
etc etc.

Brent

> Does this stuff even really exist?
> I have done a few searches on it and no one really says for sure.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>> >
>> > C
D. Ross - 13 Apr 2006 06:21 GMT
| For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and
| fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of
| any coffee, given the tiny production.  I guess the idea that you literally
| "eat sh*t" is too good a story hook to leave alone.

Yet these same reporters are probably eating yogurt and drinking beer all
the time:-)

- David R.

Plus it features cute
| furry mammals.  A sure winner.  Writing stories about the plight of coffee
| farmers or the abysmal quality of supermarket coffee, etc. is just so boring
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| >
| > C

--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net
diab0lus - 11 Apr 2006 14:45 GMT
After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't
appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to
wonder about the fermentation process that begins in the cats stomach
and if it could be simulated in controlled conditions.

The market price could be reduced by quite a bit if the taste was
there.  As we know, the high price comes from the low supply due to the
processing and labor involved in harvesting the beans (truffle
anyone?).  Even if it didn't taste 100% like Kopi Luwak, but was better
than beans that did not undergo the process, there could be a market
for it.  The new market equilibrium from the increased supply would
allow more people to try it at a hopefully lower market price.

Another thought - start a civit cat farm, but I would rather see a more
animal friendly method developed.

Your thoughts?

Ryan
Noah Little - 11 Apr 2006 15:10 GMT
> After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't
> appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The market price could be reduced by quite a bit if the taste was
> there.  

If it could be simulated with hydrochloric acid for the first part of
the process, and steeping in cat dung for the second, then suddenly cat
droppings are transformed from trash into treasure.
Signature

Noah the dubious

rnewell@vcn.bc.ca - 12 Apr 2006 19:00 GMT
In alt.coffee diab0lus <r0cketscientist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't
> appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to
> wonder about the fermentation process that begins in the cats stomach
> and if it could be simulated in controlled conditions.

Absolutely -- anyone remember Junglesque Coffee from their
way-back machines?
They used to sell 1/4 or 1/8 pound bags for 65$(US) on/about
1996. They comped us one.
We examined it pretty closely - the beans all looked "etched"
as if by some form of acid and/or some form of enzymatic activity
that had taken place.

Taste: It was a pretty dull cup with some vague earthy overtones.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
www.coffeecrew.com Colin Newell's Daily Grind
rnewell AT vcn DOT bc DOT ca
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
ephedralover@hotmail.com - 11 Apr 2006 22:56 GMT
> The Philippines' taste for civet coffee
> By Sarah Toms
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>
> Published: 2006/04/11 04:58:39 GMT

Two things.

1) I expect a high percentage of bogus doo doo beans. How can you prove
it?

2) Nothing like a cup of E.coli to get things going.
 
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