That coffee is good sh.t! - BBC
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Garrison Hilliard - 11 Apr 2006 07:13 GMT The Philippines' taste for civet coffee By Sarah Toms BBC News, Manila The Philippines has recently discovered it produces one of the world's most expensive and coveted kinds of coffee.
But it comes from an unusual source - the droppings of a nocturnal, cat-like animal called the palm civet.
Civets, related to the mongoose, are usually seen as pests in the Philippines and hunted for their meat.
But their droppings are worth their weight in gold.
Known locally as alamid, civets are carnivorous but they also have a taste for the sweet, red coffee cherries that contain the beans.
The beans pass through the civet whole after fermenting in the stomach and that's what gives the coffee its unique taste and aroma.
'Best-kept secret'
A group of professional coffee lovers followed the trail of the civet droppings high into the Malarayat mountain range, south of Manila, in search of the exotic beans.
One of them, Antonio Reyes of the Philippine coffee certifying board, said civet coffee was one of the Philippines' best-kept secrets. "I heard the old folks in the coffee farming areas have been gathering this coffee for their own consumption. They never told people they had this kind of coffee," he said.
"It goes through some kind of natural processing which you can see from the roasted beans. It's more oily, there's more aroma and it's such a good taste that you can get value for money even if the cost is so high."
Civet coffee is one of the world's most expensive. In the Philippines, only 500 kg are produced a year and the roasted beans sell for more than $115 a kilogram.
Bean hunt
Lusina Montenegro, who collects the beans for a living, led the coffee experts to the civet droppings.
She climbs the mountain in her flip-flops, hunting for the beans in the thick undergrowth. "Sometimes it's a big civet and then the droppings are also big, but sometimes it's a small one and then the droppings are small," she said.
Ms Montenegro puts the droppings in two containers - for the old ones, which resemble chalky beans, and for the fresh ones, which look like yellow beans in gravy.
She rinses the beans in forest streams and dries them on her patio before they are sold on to Bote Central, a company that exports the beans to Japan.
Niche market
The developers of the brand are a husband and wife team, Vie and Basil Reyes.
The couple was involved in conservation work for the sugar palm and the civets that live among the trees. They made organic vinegar from the palms and started selling the civet coffee alongside it in small bazaars.
Now the coffee has become so successful they are hoping to start brewing up profits in Taiwan and North America.
Mr Reyes of the coffee certifying agency also hopes the struggling local coffee industry can mirror the success Indonesia and Vietnam have enjoyed with their brands of civet coffee.
"I never thought it was also available in the Philippines, so when I first heard of it I thought this is one kind of coffee that we can look at and develop," he said. "If we have the volume then it's good for the niche market."
'Dark chocolate'
Andrew Gross, an Australian roast master, climbed the mountain to find out for himself what the attraction is of coffee that passes through the backside of a furry mammal.
Just like a wine connoisseur, he slowly slurped the brewed coffee, letting it travel across his tongue for the first time. Mr Gross said he was surprised at how much he liked it, comparing the taste to fermented plum and dark chocolate with hazelnuts.
"There's obviously some substance to this in terms of what waves I am getting, but beyond the difference in flavours a lot of it has to do with hype and a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's fairly rare," he said.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea. But experts here hope coffee lovers will want to treat themselves to something special that might just help perk up the Philippine coffee industry.
Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/4896230.stm
Published: 2006/04/11 04:58:39 GMT
Cordovero - 11 Apr 2006 07:11 GMT > 'Best-kept secret' Except on alt.coffee
C
Chon - 11 Apr 2006 09:35 GMT There are many other countries producing the 'Civet Coffee' as the Palm Civet lives across S.E.Asia. The coffee is very popular in Sumatra and Vietnam, where they sell it in coffee stores across the country. You can get it on ebay over here, and it is superb! very chocolaty and like rocket fuel... though not the cheapest. I'd highly reccomend it to anyone. C
> > 'Best-kept secret' > > Except on alt.coffee > > C Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 14:56 GMT For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of any coffee, given the tiny production. I guess the idea that you literally "eat sh*t" is too good a story hook to leave alone. Plus it features cute furry mammals. A sure winner. Writing stories about the plight of coffee farmers or the abysmal quality of supermarket coffee, etc. is just so boring in comparison.
>> 'Best-kept secret' > > Except on alt.coffee > > C shane - 12 Apr 2006 17:59 GMT Does this stuff even really exist? I have done a few searches on it and no one really says for sure.
You can't blame your average journalist for writing on it. Most of them are intellectually challenged nowadays anyway. I had wanted to go into journalism at one point in my life, when I realized how cutthroat of an occupation it is and how low the average pay is, I came to my senses and picked a less stressfull occupation.
Shane
> For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and > fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > C rnewell@vcn.bc.ca - 12 Apr 2006 18:55 GMT In alt.coffee shane <shane.olson@juno.com> wrote:
> Does this stuff even really exist? If you dig far enough back on the internet, you will find that coffee pooped out by donkey or burro in Honduras used to be sold as exotic coffee -- way back in the early nineties. This hoax has been circulating for over ten years... And to the best of my knowledge, it is still a hoax. All they did was change animals.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ www.coffeecrew.com Colin Newell's Daily Grind rnewell AT vcn DOT bc DOT ca \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Heat + Beans - 12 Apr 2006 19:12 GMT I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average" journalists, sub-minimum wage workers, anyone directly employed by a government (though not 'our fighting men and women') to name a few. Most dangerous is the ease with which some will toss off characterizations about others being "intellectually challenged" and the perfectly silly fantasy that people used to be smarter.
BTW, what is the "less stressful occupation" you selected (at high "average pay") after you came to your presumably "unchallenged" senses?
Martin
shane - 12 Apr 2006 21:02 GMT Sorry, I did not mean to generalize or offend anyone. What I meant by "average" is just that, an exceptional journalist can do quite well, but then, there are not many people of Mike Wallace caliber. The "average" journalist does not make a high salary. I mentioned that I had looked into going into journalism, I ended up going into Information Technology. In my part of the country, the average starting IT person makes what the average journalist makes after several years. There are a lot fewer journalsiam positions and the competition for them is fierce, hence people are not so nice to each other trying to work their way up. I did work for a college newspaper, and it bothered me to see the extent to which people would play fast and loose with the actual facts of a story. The worst offenders that I knew who did this were good writers who went into journalism as careers. So, I was just giving a generalization based upon my own experiences and frustrations looking at the sort of things that journalists think of as good stories. Have any of the stories about animal dung coffee been verified by any credible sources?
Shane
> I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of > our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Martin Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 21:31 GMT On the one hand, it's impossible to make generalizations, because each individual (reporter, sack of coffee, human being, etc.) is different. OTOH, making generalizations is what we do as humans and they provide a useful framework - stereotypes wouldn't have any power to offend or amuse us if they didn't have any relation to reality (e.g. if I say "most Chinese people have a great sense of rhythm and therefore excel at jazz music" or "most reporters I know are really good at calculus", all I will get is a puzzled look). Usually if people are offended by a stereotype, it's because they perceive it to contain more than a grain of truth, not because it is totally false. Consider your sense of offense below in that light and think about why you are so offended by these stereotypes - if you thought them to be completely false in all cases, would you be offended?
> I'm always wary of generalizations that blanket entire categories of > our fellow humans: teenagers, "typical" baristas, "average" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Martin Heat + Beans - 12 Apr 2006 22:39 GMT "Usually if people are offended by a stereotype, it's because they perceive it to contain more than a grain of truth, not because it is totally false."
Jack, this is certainly a novel way of looking at stereotypes. IMO, much of the world's unpleasantness occurs when people generalize from a "grain" of truth (a curious concept in itself) into a smear of an entire category. Yes, it's a human tendency, but not all of our tendencies are admirable. "Completely false in all cases" is a mighty steep threshold ---and I've tried to follow the logical track that train travels on. To no avail.
IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting. Happily, Shane's longer critique of journalists is interesting, particularlistic (both to himself and to journalists), and moves him some distance from calling "most of them ...intellectually challenged."
Martin
Jack Denver - 12 Apr 2006 23:41 GMT Generally speaking (there are those words again) in our society the very top talent is not attracted to J- school (vs. law, medicine, engineering, etc.) In the past, reporting was a blue collar job (think The Front Page) but nowadays it seems to attract English majors with an ideological agenda.
> IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely > reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Martin shane - 13 Apr 2006 02:19 GMT > IMO, reporters not being smart enough is one of the least likely > reasons for our getting distorted news and superficial reporting. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Martin This brings up an interesting thought, what is the reason for getting distorted news and superficial reporting? I suppose one thing is that news is a business and sensational news is easier to write and sell. Selling is how one makes money. I have know really good news people and not so good ones. I do think the idea that journalism attracts idealistic English majors is accurate as many of the people I have run across are idealistic.
Shane
Steve Ackman - 13 Apr 2006 08:46 GMT ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.coffee.]
> This brings up an interesting thought, what is the reason for getting > distorted news and superficial reporting? I suppose one thing is > that news is a business and sensational news is easier to write and > sell. Selling is how one makes money. Fiction sells better than dead air (or blank paper), AND fiction is easier and quicker than investigating and/or fact checking.
When my brother and his wife died in a small aircraft crash, a TV personality came around looking for some crying relatives I guess. I didn't feel like talking, so the "reporter" just made stuff up.
What aired was 50% facts that had already aired, 30% total fabrication, and 20% nothing at all... you know, shock from the neighbors 1/4 mile down the road, "Oh, we just can't believe they're gone... Well, we didn't know them at all, but they'd wave if we were out when they drove by. They seemed like nice people, and they'll really be missed."
Journalism is about coming up with enough column inches or enough minutes by deadline. It's a plus if they're engaging, a minus if they get the station or paper sued. Anything between those extremes is still a paycheck.
Brent - 13 Apr 2006 03:34 GMT The article is a transcript of a radio report - he really did talk to Andrew etc etc.
Brent
> Does this stuff even really exist? > I have done a few searches on it and no one really says for sure. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > >> > C D. Ross - 13 Apr 2006 06:21 GMT | For some reason, reporters find Civet coffee to be endlessly amusing and | fascinating to write about - it probably has the greatest word count/lb. of | any coffee, given the tiny production. I guess the idea that you literally | "eat sh*t" is too good a story hook to leave alone. Yet these same reporters are probably eating yogurt and drinking beer all the time:-)
- David R.
Plus it features cute
| furry mammals. A sure winner. Writing stories about the plight of coffee | farmers or the abysmal quality of supermarket coffee, etc. is just so boring [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | > | > C -- Less information than you ever thought possible: http://www.demitasse.net
diab0lus - 11 Apr 2006 14:45 GMT After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to wonder about the fermentation process that begins in the cats stomach and if it could be simulated in controlled conditions.
The market price could be reduced by quite a bit if the taste was there. As we know, the high price comes from the low supply due to the processing and labor involved in harvesting the beans (truffle anyone?). Even if it didn't taste 100% like Kopi Luwak, but was better than beans that did not undergo the process, there could be a market for it. The new market equilibrium from the increased supply would allow more people to try it at a hopefully lower market price.
Another thought - start a civit cat farm, but I would rather see a more animal friendly method developed.
Your thoughts?
Ryan
Noah Little - 11 Apr 2006 15:10 GMT > After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't > appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The market price could be reduced by quite a bit if the taste was > there. If it could be simulated with hydrochloric acid for the first part of the process, and steeping in cat dung for the second, then suddenly cat droppings are transformed from trash into treasure.
 Signature Noah the dubious
rnewell@vcn.bc.ca - 12 Apr 2006 19:00 GMT In alt.coffee diab0lus <r0cketscientist@hotmail.com> wrote:
> After watching a news clip about Kopi Luwak (odd that the name doesn't > appear in the article) that was previously posted on ac, I began to > wonder about the fermentation process that begins in the cats stomach > and if it could be simulated in controlled conditions. Absolutely -- anyone remember Junglesque Coffee from their way-back machines? They used to sell 1/4 or 1/8 pound bags for 65$(US) on/about 1996. They comped us one. We examined it pretty closely - the beans all looked "etched" as if by some form of acid and/or some form of enzymatic activity that had taken place.
Taste: It was a pretty dull cup with some vague earthy overtones.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ www.coffeecrew.com Colin Newell's Daily Grind rnewell AT vcn DOT bc DOT ca \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
ephedralover@hotmail.com - 11 Apr 2006 22:56 GMT > The Philippines' taste for civet coffee > By Sarah Toms [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > Published: 2006/04/11 04:58:39 GMT Two things.
1) I expect a high percentage of bogus doo doo beans. How can you prove it?
2) Nothing like a cup of E.coli to get things going.
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