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Natural Science Forum / Earth Science / Earthquakes / July 2008



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Melting Poles: Earth's Axis Has Changed  http://axischange.wordpress.com/

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www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 01:00 GMT
North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer
Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
National Geographic News
June 20, 2008
Arctic warming has become so dramatic that the North Pole may melt this
summer, report scientists studying the effects of climate change in the
field.

"We're actually projecting this year that the North Pole may be free of ice
for the first time [in history]," David Barber, of the University of
Manitoba, told National Geographic News aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen, a
Canadian research icebreaker.
More:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080620-north-pole.html

http://axischange.wordpress.com/           

EARTH'S AXIS HAS CHANGED

Earth’s axis shifted 2000 miles south causing
massive global weather changes in 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth’s axis has changed
August 9, 2007 by mmc7

The earth’s axis has shifted from the 23.5 degree angle to about a 49.5
degree angle to the south.

At the onset, it was a gradual shift not readily noticeable by the average
person. The most significant shift in the axis occurred between Dec 4 and 6,
2006. Although the average person might expect to notice a shift of this
magnitude, you have to remember that the earth is doing a complete rotation
of 24,902 miles at the equator every day, which is about 1038 miles each
hour. There is no sense of physical sensation of motion from the normal
rotation, just as there was no physical sense of motion from the axial
shifts, which occurred last December.

This information is based on data obtained from NASA, SOHO, ESA, NOAA, USGS,
FEMA and other government websites. All of the evidentiary data, images and
original links to the sources can be obtained at www.divulgence.net  The
information is in plain English with illustrations and images so it is easy
for anyone to understand. As an engineer for 30 years and many subsequent
research projects, I included images and illustrations on how I measured the
angle of the sun on Jun 21, 2007 so you can see exactly how this was done
and view photos of the actual location of the sun on that date. Many other
links are also included in this article.

The total distance the earth has shifted is approximately 2000 miles to the
south of our original position during the Summer months. (see images on
www.divulgence.net) This has already caused record heat and bizarre weather
patterns in 2007. June 21st is the summer solstice; the longest day of the
year when the sun should be directly over the Tropic of Cancer which runs
through mid-Mexico. The sun should never be farther north than that point.
Perhaps some of you noticed the sun shining in the windows on the north side
of your home during sunrise and sunset last June. Essentially, this means
the tropic of cancer which was located in central Mexico has moved northward
where it is now located just below Maine and across the Dakotas. This has
shifted the angle of the US in proximity toward the sun about 2000 miles to
the south during the summer.  Since the temperature variance between those
locations in the summer months is only about a 15-20 degree difference, the
change was not as obvious as you would expect.

For those who might believe the star alignment would have a drastic change,
it would not be as significant as you might believe. When something is small
and at a great distance, the effect of a 2000 mile slip is not as profound
as you might think. The variation on the star positions are so miniscule
that you would need professional observatory measuring equipment to detect
the change. When the average person does not notice the change in the angle
of the sun, they would definitely not be able to notice the few inches
different in the positions of the stars. So when we are talking about the
appearance of stars in the sky with a 26 degree change, it does not
translate to an equal angle change in respect to star positions which with
the naked eye on earth would only be inches in the sky. Now there is no
doubt that the observatories with precision measurements could detect the
change, but they are all under their respective government grants,
constraints and restrictions, so don’t expect any of them to come forward
about this. For those who are having a hard time visualizing the
differences, I downloaded star charts for Mexico and the Dakotas to show how
little difference 2000 miles would appear at night. You can see those charts
on this link:

http://divulgence.net/star%20charts.htm

Earth has always been tilted at an angle toward the sun during the summer
and away from the sun in the winter due to the orientation of earth in its
orbit around the sun. Hence, the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn were the
points where the sun would be directly overhead On June 21st and Dec 21st.
With the current increased angle of the axis, during the winter the Tropic
of Capricorn is now 2000 miles farther toward the south pole (a Mirror image
of the northern hemisphere). The US will be tilted 2000 miles farther to the
north of our original position during the winter months, which will cause
extreme cold winter conditions. The southern hemisphere, which has winter
during our summer, has already reported freak cold waves and snow in places
such as Peru. We can expect the same when our winter approaches. You can
read about the bizarre weather patterns at
http://divulgence.net/bizarre%20weather.html or take a look at the FEMA 2007
disaster website http://www.fema.gov/news/disasters.fema .

Contrary to the general perception of Global warming affecting the weather,
it was only the catalyst, which caused of the unprecedented melting of the
polar ice caps. Siberia, which was formerly covered with glaciers and
permafrost, is now completely thawed for the first time and can be seen on
the Google earth satellites images. This massive meltdown created an
imbalance in the weight distribution of the planet leading to the axial
slippage. The resulting increase in the tilt of the Earth’s axis has been
causing the extreme weather conditions across the globe in 2007. Here is an
excellent image of the North Pole on 8/3/2007, which shows you the current
state of the polar melting.
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2007/images/noaa3-2007-0803-020318.jpg  You
can also access galleries of arctic photos at his page
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html. Here is another interesting
article from NASA about a Sept 24, 1998 solar wind, which they describe as
blowing away a portion of the Earth’s atmosphere, creating ion fountains
spewing ions and atmosphere into deep space at the poles.
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast08dec98_1.htm

It is the subsequent shift in the axis causing the weather extremes from
summer heat waves to winter cold waves, massive flooding in nearly every
country in the world, bizarre tornadic activity and unusual weather patterns
as well as an dramatic increase in seismic and volcanic activity across the
globe in 2007. The tornadic activity in 2007 can be viewed at this link.
1078 tornadoes were reported in the US alone by Aug 9th 2007.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornadoes_of_2007. The severe cold winter storm
tornadoes in Germany on Jan 18, the tornadoes in the UK, Siberia, Poland,
Viet Nam and the recent tornado in Brooklyn are just some of the bizarre
tornadoes reported in 2007.

Just in the past 8 months, every volcanic region in the world has become
active. Simultaneous eruptions & pyroclastic ash plumes are spewing from
more than 100 volcanoes worldwide; Russia, Indonesia, South America, Central
America, Africa, Mexico, India, Philippines, New Zealand, Japan, Hawaii,
Greece, etc. The Lava dome on Mount St Helens in the US is also continuing
to expand in size and seismic activity has increased which you can read
about at http://www.volcano.si.edu/reports/usgs/ and also includes the
volcanic activity for the past 7 days. You can see additional info on these
volcanic events at http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/current.html
and a more complete list at
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/history.html and this next page
from NASA has satellite images of the 2007 volcanic activity but they are 2
months behind on updating this page so it is missing quite a few recent
eruptions, but the images are excellent.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/Archive/natural_hazards_archive.
php3?topic=volcano


Between Jun 23 and July 23, 2007, there were 318 earthquakes above 4.0
during this 30-day period. Eleven of those were above 6.0. Between July 18
and Aug 17, 2007, the number of earthquakes above 4.0 increased to 333.
Eighteen of which were above 6.0. You can check the current earthquake
statistics during the past 30 days on the official seismic website at
http://www.iris.edu/seismon/last30.html  or if you want to see a full list
of ALL earthquakes recorded during the last 7 days (several hundred quakes)
you can go to
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

This dramatic increase in climate change was a surprise to the scientific
community who were expecting to deal with gradual increases to climate
changes over the next few decades. But the shift in Dec 2006 was so
significant and unexpected, it misaligned the entire GPS system by several
hundred miles in less than an hour on Dec 4th and again on Dec 6th. This
sent the scientific community into a panic. They maintained their silence
for 4 months until they had worked out a cover story, which would not panic
the public.

The axis shift was the actual cause of the GPS satellite system failure.
When the earth shifted, the GPS satellite network did not shift with us and
became misaligned. Nothing was mentioned to the public until the first week
of April following a global meeting of world scientists when they finally
released a cover story that a historic solar flare had knocked down the GPS
system on Dec 6, 2006. If this historic solar flare had been genuine, NASA
and SOHO would have been on every TV network back in December bragging about
witnessing such a historic event and showing off the hundreds of images SOHO
(NASA-ESA solar research & imagery) take of the sun every day. Instead, they
removed every solar image for those dates from their websites and never said
a word until the cover story 4 months later.

Of the images you can access before and after the dates of the supposed
flare, you will find that there was far more solar activity in Jan 2007 than
the preceding Nov or Dec. However, in their haste to remove the solar
images, they forgot to remove some of the data records showing all the solar
emission levels for those dates, which clearly contradict their claims of a
historical solar flare. http://divulgence.net/Celias%20data.html Additional
data from various solar emission ground monitoring stations around the globe
does show the full time period and following the shift, all of the
monitoring stations levels permanently changed because their locations were
now in a different proximity to the emissions from the sun. SEC space
weather alerts during those same dates fail to show any abnormal solar flare
or emission activity.

Providers of satellite & GPS systems are using relay stations and software
patches to correct for the GPS and satellite misalignment so they will
appear to be functioning normally. The weather satellite templates have also
been readjusted to synchronize the image with the template. Other efforts to
correct other satellite system misalignments, includes adjusting the
position of the various satellites, either by using maneuvering thrusters on
satellites so-equipped or by manual manipulation from space shuttle crews or
through the use of the USAF space maneuvering vehicles.

For those living in the US, you may have noticed on the Summer solstice
(June 21, 2007) that the sun was setting and rising behind the horizon to
the north at about a 26-degree angle. As we move away from that date the
angle will continue to decrease. Do not try to judge this while the sun is
in the sky. Look at it during sunrise and sunset at the very moment it
starts passing behind the horizon. It will throw you off if you try to view
this while it is still in the sky as the transition across the sky is curved
and some axial wobble involved. Remember that we are now only a month away
from Autumn and the angle of the sun will begin to change toward a more
southerly position.

Nearly every country on the globe has suffered from massive flooding this
year; many times over. Take a look at the recent Hurricane at the end of
July 2007, which went northward to Nova Scotia. It formed north of Bermuda,
from expelled portions of the storm systems rotating over Texas. Other areas
will experience drought and heat waves. The most rain has been in the
central US due to the jet stream which has been running due south down the
Rockies into southern Mexico while hot humid air enters from the gulf and
creates what looks like a landlocked hurricane the size of Texas dumping as
much as 10 inches of tropical rain in an hour. It rained at the same time
every day between April and July 2007 with the exception of 3 days. Having
lived in Panama for 2 years when I was younger, I clearly recognize Tropical
weather when I see it. This was not normal for hot, dry Texas.

As we approach the fall, the weather will seem to stabilize as our angle to
the sun changes. However, in the winter, we will be 2000 miles farther to
the north and we will experience cold waves, ice storms and increased snow
levels across the US similar to those shown on the FEMA website for last
Winter.

Every summer will now be very hot or a massive change in weather patterns,
tornadic activity, storm severity, humidity, fog and a heavy increase in
rainfall and flooding due to the changes in air and water currents,
temperatures, as well as a significant increase in polar ice melting and
evaporation.

By 2002, world leaders began to realize serious climate changes were
occurring more rapidly than expected and formed a global partnership to
research the best options for reducing the effects of the permanent climate
changes occurring across the globe. Following the 2003 heat related deaths
of hundreds in the UK, the partnership of several G8 countries formed task
groups to begin immediate implementation of climate change projects to deal
with the rapidly rising sea levels and heat waves.

This year, the climate change task force realized the rapid changes will
cause the polar ice to completely melt within 1-5 years rather than decades
in the future. The resulting rising sea levels will cause catastrophic
flooding of coastlines around the world. With the UK heat related deaths in
2003 and massive flooding throughout 2007, the UK created a webpage with
informational pamphlets to teach their citizens how to prepare for the
permanent changes in climate such as installing green roofs. (Unlike the US,
which has no plans to inform the public and denies the climate change exists
even though much of the research is being performed by Lawrence Livermore
Labs and projects are currently being undertaken in several cities.)
http://www.ukresilience.info/emergencies/weatherandflooding.aspx

The UK pamphlets include information on global projects to deal with the
problems such as widening river basins and watershed areas to deal with
rising sea levels and creating natural drainage landscaping in neighborhoods
near the coastlines and floating houses in the Netherlands and the green
roof projects in Canada and the UK as well as public cooling centers being
implemented in Philadelphia and projects in other countries such as Germany
and Japan. (It’s sad when the US citizens have to get their info from
overseas rather than their own government.) The UK was nice enough to
include information about the projects being conducted in the US in the
pamphlet they prepared for their own citizens. Here is the link and their
description to this document GLA: London Climate Change Partnership Report:
“Adapting to climate change - Lessons for London” [External PDF, 1.6MB, 161
pages] The aim of this review was to look at how 18 major international
cities are managing climate risks, which are expected to intensify in London
over the coming decades due to climate change: flooding, high temperatures,
limited water resources. This will help inform the climate adaptation
planning policies for London.

You won’t hear about this from any meteorologists, astronomers or
astrophysicists. They have all been reigned in by their respective
governments. Meteorologists have their licenses under the control of NWS and
NOAA. They cannot declare any weather conditions unless the NWS does so
first… otherwise, loss of their license.

The scientists are all at the mercy of government grants and access to gov’t
equipment, satellites, observatories or employed by gov’t contractors. The
Universities are controlled by gov’t grant monies…. so none of them are
going to talk about it. The Media is also under blackout on this issue… they
also have licenses controlled by the FCC.

The increased energy consumption and increase in crop failures as the
climate continues to change is partially behind the US pursuit over control
of the Arab oil. It is also behind the importation of foreign grain when the
US is supposedly the bread basket of the world in grain crops. This also is
the catalyst for the building of dozens of new power plants, etc. The US is
stockpiling all of these items since extreme hot and extreme cold seasons
will cause the energy consumption to increase dramatically and crop failures
will be extensive. Over the past 3 years in the south central US, some areas
have experienced 100% crop failures due to the changing weather.

The axis can continue to shift further as the polar ice continues to melt.
In the very near future, perhaps in 1-5 years, the earth will continue to
shift toward the south until both poles are where our equator was once
located due to polar ice completing the melting in rapid fashion, now that
it is warmer. The sea levels will also rise as a result. This melting is
causing the change in weight balance since the earth is wider and heavier at
the equator, hence the axis slippage. Perhaps the Mayan’s and other ancient
civilizations knew something we don’t when their calendar ended in 2012 and
has been interpreted to be the end of civilization.

Once the axis has tipped sideways, the orientation of the earth toward the
sun will have the north pole facing toward the sun in the summer and the
south pole facing the sun in the winter. The earth will continue to rotate,
but sideways like a watermelon on a horizontal spit. During summer the
southern hemisphere will be dark and cold while the northern will be searing
hot and always light. The inverse will be true in the winter. Only the fall
and spring will have more normal days and nights since the earth will be
sideways to the sun when at those solar orbit positions. Here is a link to a
climate modification project using orbital mirrors to redistribute the sun
and dredging the oceans to lower contain the rising sea levels. Just one set
of ideas they are tossing around to deal with these ongoing problems I have
described. http://home.swipnet.se/allez/Eng/SpaceMirrors.htm

So, take a look at the data for yourself and either look at one of those
websites or do your own research because if you are waiting for the
government to announce it, don’t hold your breath. They’ll only tell you
about it after it becomes so obvious that it can no longer be hidden and the
selected gov’t leaders are all safely ensconced in their underground
facilities. Although their massive underground network of tunnels and
facilities and supplies were all paid by the tax dollars, the average
citizens won’t be invited into their climate controlled, safe haven. The
general public will be left on the surface to fend on their own. Troops will
be in the streets (supplemented by Mexico, since our own troops have been
depleted) with everyone under martial law lockdown with FEMA in charge… and
like Katrina, they are not there to help the citizens. The fewer people who
survive, the less who will be consuming food, water, energy and medical
supplies.

Having been a member of a major metro emergency management team in
conjunction with FEMA, I can tell you for a fact, that FEMA’s treatment of
the Katrina victims was no accident. FEMA has the Federal authority to run
the government in conjunction with the military in the event of a major
national catastrophe. Their true mandate is to contain and control
survivors… not to provide rescues, food, water, shelter or medical care. The
RC won’t either as they are now just an extension of the FEMA mandate. Roads
will be blocked, outside assistance will be rejected, survivors corralled
without sustenance, communications will be cut off within minutes of the
emergency so only designated emergency & government personnel will have
phone or cell service while JQ Public will only have access 911 which will
be overloaded. I also know this for a fact because I programmed the phone
systems with the special class of service designations as required by the
Emergency management agencies so the phone service can be switched during an
emergency in a matter of minutes, thus cutting off communications for the
public throughout the affected region. Troops will be told they have to
corral and contain the survivors to prevent contamination, disease or to
contain supposed terrorists. FEMA and the RC will claim the disaster areas
are unsafe to enter and the survivors will be left to die.

Years before Katrina, I had told friends and family about this and none
believed our government was capable of such a thing… then came Katrina and
to their shock and horror, everything I had told them came true. Roads were
blocked, victims were stranded and corralled by troops and held without
food, water, medicine, adequate shelter or basic necessities. Walmart trucks
were rejected, ice trucks sent to drive across the country, donated boats
were never used, no attempt to rescue or transport survivors or hospital
patients who were left to die. Trailers and vacant military base facilities
were never used, volunteer doctors were not permitted to help the patients
at the airport and were told to sweep floors while patients laid on the
floor dying. FEMA snuck in during the middle of the night and deliberately
removed the communications antenna belonging to St Bernard Parish, cutting
off their only source of communications. The only two helicopters attempting
to rescue victims were punished for being awol without permission.
Volunteers were blocked from attempting rescues. Hospital staff and patients
abandoned. Both FEMA & Red Cross located a long distance away from the
disaster areas where the victims could not reach and claimed the disaster
zone was unsafe and contaminated with bacteria and disease. (Just when would
a disaster zone ever be safe? That is the reason victims need help). What
was their excuse in Mississippi and Alabama? The Red Cross set up more than
15 miles away in those states where none of the victims could go to obtain
supplies since all of their cars had been destroyed. Yet, the Red Cross
would not bring the supplies to them. Only the national furor over the
stranded Katrina victims finally brought help when the gov’t was faced with
thousands of angry Americans descending upon New Orleans. The state of TX
finally had to send buses and provide shelter since no other entity would do
it. But in the next national disaster, the public won’t know what is going
on because the media will be cut off by the EBS. Only sanctioned news will
be broadcast to the public. And like Katrina, the death counts publicized
will be far lower than the actual numbers. Multiply the numbers by a factor
of 10 to get closer to the real figures.

As I said, no one believed it when I told them about this years ago, but
after Katrina when everything occurred exactly as I had long before
described it, they knew I had been telling the true about this… as horrible
as it may seem. But even I was surprised that FEMA and the RC would do such
a thing to victims of floods and hurricanes. My understanding was that these
mandates would only be used during biochemical or nuclear disasters or
attacks. I was stunned that they were doing it to victims of a hurricane and
floods in full view of the American public.

Don’t believe it, ignore it and place your trust in the assurances of a
corrupt gov’t and you will not find out the truth until it is too late.
Check out the data for yourself.

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
Jim Willemin - 28 Jun 2008 01:28 GMT
> North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer
> Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> massive global weather changes in 2007
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

<snip drivel>

Learn some astronomy.  If the earth's axis shifted, the entire globe of
the sky would appear to shift as well - e.g. Polaris would no longer be
the north star.  A shift of 2,000 miles is a shift of roughly 33
degrees; had the earth's axis moved that much, Polaris would be 33
degrees from the celestial pole.  I can go outside tonight and observe
Polaris about half a degree of the celestial pole - about where it has
been all my life.  Your hypothesis stands disproved.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 02:18 GMT
>> North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer
>> Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>the sky would appear to shift as well - e.g. Polaris would no longer be
>the north star.

Looking at the orientation of the North Star, because it is so far away,  it
would be less than a 1/16 of an inch difference to the eye.  How many people
would notice that?

The real challenge is to explain away why, at summer solstice the sun, is
setting 26 degrees further north (in the USA). There's no other explanation
than Earth has shifted.

> A shift of 2,000 miles is a shift of roughly 33
>degrees;

26 degrees.

>had the earth's axis moved that much, Polaris would be 33
>degrees from the celestial pole.

No, it wouldn't.  

>  I can go outside tonight and observe
>Polaris about half a degree of the celestial pole - about where it has
>been all my life.  Your hypothesis stands disproved.

Closer objects are easier to see with the naked eye.  Explain why the sun is
setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 02:34 GMT
> Explain why the sun is
>setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.

I measured the setting sun tonight, just a few days after solstice, by using
markers on my property which were set prior to 2006.  The sun is setting 26
degrees further to the north from the marker than it did 2 years ago.  I
noticed this last June also.  

There is NO explanation for this other than the Earth has shifted on its
axis -- exactly as described here:

http://axischange.wordpress.com/   

What is distrubing is the US government is out right lying about this.

How stupid is the US government to believe that the masses are as stupid as
they believe?
Timberwoof - 28 Jun 2008 06:53 GMT
> > Explain why the sun is
> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>  http://axischange.wordpress.com/  

Actually, there's another explanation. One of your markers moved, or
you're looking at it from the wrong place.

> What is distrubing is the US government is out right lying about this.
>
> How stupid is the US government to believe that the masses are as stupid as
> they believe?

How come nobody else noticed this?

Last March 21, the sun rose up in line with the east-west boulevard near
where I live, and it set directly to the west. These days, I try to go
home late enough that  the sun has already set, for in the summer, it's
always in my eyes as I ride home to the northwest.

The sun is exactly where it's supposed to be. You can't change a thing
like that and have nobody notice.

You're one of stupid, ignorant, or a troll. Ignorant can be fixed; read
up on basic astronomy. No, really. Read up on it, from the basics. Your
public education failed you miserably and you don't know the first
thing.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 12:01 GMT
>How come nobody else noticed this?

They did.

Message-ID: <6q5c64986vhc6b0tnejdhaskka8acvfo8m@4ax.com>
Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 03:39 GMT
> >How come nobody else noticed this?
>
> They did.

In article
<timberwoof.spam-57F786.22531427062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

> How come nobody else noticed this?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The sun is exactly where it's supposed to be. You can't change a thing
> like that and have nobody notice.

How come the sun is rising and setting in all the same places it's
supposed to? How come I don't see "midnight sun"?

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 03:47 GMT
>How come the blue crayon is always the first one I break?

Dunno, sonny.  Don't use the blue crayon.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:19 GMT
<snip irrelevancies, logical fallacies and red herrings>

Gosh, there's nothing left.

The truth speaks for itself, it is self-evident:

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 12:06 GMT
>> > Explain why the sun is
>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Actually, there's another explanation. One of your markers moved, or
>you're looking at it from the wrong place.

Neither of the two objects I used to triangulate moved.
Nosterill - 01 Jul 2008 14:04 GMT
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:53:14 -0700, Timberwoof
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Neither of the two objects I used to triangulate moved.

Government agents just keep moving Stonehenge and Newgrange. Tourists
and archaeologists are just so unobservant!
Bob Officer - 16 Jul 2008 21:06 GMT
>>> > Explain why the sun is
>>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Neither of the two objects I used to triangulate moved.  

What about the third point... it takes three points to tri-angulate.

Signature

Ak'toh'di

Saint Isadore Patron Saint of the Internet - 17 Jul 2008 00:02 GMT
Chicken little took a pill that makes her immune to it all.
So don't worry if the sky does fall it will avoid falling on
her.   The Reptoids told me - so, it must be true.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 02:20 GMT
>Chicken little took a pill that makes her immune to it all.

Yep.

>So don't worry if the sky does fall it will avoid falling on
>her.  

Yep

> The Reptoids told me - so, it must be true.

Nope.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 02:26 GMT
>>Chicken little took a pill that makes her immune to it all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Nope.

>so, it must be true.

Yep
www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 03:18 GMT
>Chicken little took a pill that makes her immune to it all.

True.

>So don't worry if the sky does fall it will avoid falling on
>her.  

True.

> The Reptoids told me

Preying Mantis.

>- so, it must be true.

Yes.

If you want to survive, you must leave Earth.
You have to get past these if you decide to leave:
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/wal141.jpg
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/wal146.jpg
You must leave Earth with the right protocols, or you won't make it.

It doesn't matter to me whether you chose to leave or not.

You have been warned.

<game over>
Timberwoof - 17 Jul 2008 00:02 GMT
> >>> > Explain why the sun is
> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> What about the third point... it takes three points to tri-angulate.

Bob, please don't feed the troll. This one has even admitted to being a
troll.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 03:07 GMT
There's no way out.  You have to leave Earth

bon voyage

yer plonked
Bob Officer - 19 Jul 2008 02:24 GMT
>> >>> > Explain why the sun is
>> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>Bob, please don't feed the troll. This one has even admitted to being a
>troll.

Alexa takes herself seriously.

100% aluminum...
and her thoughts and exposition on the subject of free energy by
using the hydrogen in the water are proof of it.

She is less of a troll than the weatherlawyer and far more
entertaining than Petra.

Signature

Ak'toh'di

www.freedomtofascism.com - 19 Jul 2008 02:26 GMT
>>> >>> > Explain why the sun is
>>> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Alexa takes herself seriously.

You're the one who takes Alexa seriously or else you wouldn't keep
mentioning it.

>100% aluminum...
>and her thoughts and exposition on the subject of free energy by
>using the hydrogen in the water are proof of it.
>
>She is less of a troll than the weatherlawyer and far more
>entertaining than Petra.

Have you figured out how you're going to create a New World Order without a
wrold?

No?

TBFY!
www.freedomtofascism.com - 19 Jul 2008 02:28 GMT
>>> >>> > Explain why the sun is
>>> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Alexa takes herself seriously.

You're the one who takes Alexa seriously or else you wouldn't keep
mentioning it.

>100% aluminum...
>and her thoughts and exposition on the subject of free energy by
>using the hydrogen in the water are proof of it.
>
>She is less of a troll than the weatherlawyer and far more
>entertaining than Petra.

Have you figured out how you're going to create a New World Order without a
world?

No?

TBFY!

You know the drill.  Go f*ck yourself, dumbass.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 19 Jul 2008 02:40 GMT
Sick to the topic, which is you've been proven wrong and are now
showing what a jerk you are when you lose.

When you figure out how to have a New World Order without a world, let
everyone know, until then, you're just another retard with delusions of
grandeur.

>>> >>> > Explain why the sun is
>>> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>She is less of a troll than the weatherlawyer and far more
>entertaining than Petra.
Bob Officer - 22 Jul 2008 02:14 GMT
Hi Alexa!

>Sick to the topic, which is you've been proven wrong and are now
>showing what a jerk you are when you lose.
>
>When you figure out how to have a New World Order without a world, let
>everyone know, until then, you're just another retard with delusions of
>grandeur.

Classic Projection...

>>>> >>> > Explain why the sun is
>>>> >>> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>>She is less of a troll than the weatherlawyer and far more
>>entertaining than Petra.

Signature

Ak'toh'di

honestjohn@centurytel.net - 22 Jul 2008 02:28 GMT
> Hi Alexa!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Classic Projection...

Injun Bob is a real "Brave Sucker".

HJ
www.freedomtofascism.com - 22 Jul 2008 02:47 GMT
>I am a product of the dumbing down of America

Yes, we know.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 03:09 GMT
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:06:11 -0700, Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7>
wrote: <snipped>

There's no way to fix this.  If you want to survive, you must leave Earth.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not you chose to leave or not.

You have been warned.

<game over>
www.freedomtofascism.com - 17 Jul 2008 03:16 GMT
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:06:11 -0700, Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7>
wrote: <snipped>

Re: Earth Axis Slipping

There's no way to fix this -- it has to do with electromagnetics, gravity
and the force of the Universe.  There is no way possible to correct or stop
Earth's rotational axis change or the pending destruction of Earth.

If you want to survive, you must leave Earth.
You have to get past these if you decide to leave:
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/wal141.jpg
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/wal146.jpg
You must leave Earth with the right protocols, or you won't make it.

It doesn't matter to me whether you chose to leave or not.

You have been warned.

<game over>
Thomas A. Russ - 30 Jun 2008 20:12 GMT
> > > Explain why the sun is
> > >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Actually, there's another explanation. One of your markers moved, or
> you're looking at it from the wrong place.

Actually, the real explanation is that the sun is supposed to be setting
exactly at that location.  The error lies in not expecting this result.
(As I just noticed you pointed out below)

> > What is distrubing is the US government is out right lying about this.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> public education failed you miserably and you don't know the first
> thing.

Signature

Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute

Episkopos J.J. Jubilee - 28 Jun 2008 14:06 GMT
John M. - 29 Jun 2008 15:31 GMT
> > Explain why the sun is
> >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> degrees further to the north from the marker than it did 2 years ago.  I
> noticed this last June also.

Someone snuck onto your property and moved your markers, I'm sorry to
have to tell you. I can propose another possibility if you prefer -
see below at the end of this post.

I use a mountain back of my house as a marker. On Jun 21 each year the
sun rises *exactly* behind the peak, 8h36 local time, as viewed from
the top left-hand corner of my bathroom window. It's done that for the
last four years (ie since I discovered it) and it did the same this
year. Nobody moved my house and nobody moved the mountain.

> There is NO explanation for this other than the Earth has shifted on its
> axis -- exactly as described here:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> How stupid is the US government to believe that the masses are as stupid as
> they believe?

I have a more parsimonious explanation, so in accordance with Occam's
razor I must tell you quite definitively "You're an effing looney"
Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 20:20 GMT
In article
<93eed85e-1ae1-4164-ae90-5b8c6b4f644c@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,

> > > Explain why the sun is
> > >setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I have a more parsimonious explanation, so in accordance with Occam's
> razor I must tell you quite definitively "You're an effing looney"

I think that he may have started out with serious intent and some
misunderstanding of basic astronomy and scientific method. But he went
into the lala-land of conspiracy theories and won't retreat from it. And
now, because of ordinary guys like you and I contradicting him and
explaining simple experiments he can do himself, he appears to have
self-destructed.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

Timberwoof - 28 Jun 2008 06:48 GMT
> >> North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer
> >> Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> Looking at the orientation of the North Star, because it is so far away,  it
> would be less than a 1/16 of an inch difference to the eye.  

Um, learn some geometry. How far away are you holding that inch?

No, if the Earth is rotating around a different axis or if the axis has
shifted by 26°, then the stars, planets, and the sun will be in
completely different laces in the sky.

> How many people
> would notice that?

Only just about everybody.

> The real challenge is to explain away why, at summer solstice the sun, is
> setting 26 degrees further north (in the USA). There's no other explanation
> than Earth has shifted.

What? 26 degrees further north than what?

> > A shift of 2,000 miles is a shift of roughly 33
> >degrees;
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> No, it wouldn't.  

Oh, so the earth's axis is still pointed at Polaris, but the Earth
itself is rotating differently than before. The poles are in new places,
and so is the equator.

Yet nobody is supposed to have noticed?

> >  I can go outside tonight and observe
> >Polaris about half a degree of the celestial pole - about where it has
> >been all my life.  Your hypothesis stands disproved.
>
> Closer objects are easier to see with the naked eye.  Explain why the sun is
> setting 26 degrees further north at summer solstice in the USA.

26 degrees than what? You mean than at the equinox or at the winter
solstice? The answer is simple: It always does that.

Here, do the experiment yourself. Over the next year, get up at sunrise
and photograph where the sun rises. (You have to be in the same place
for this to work.) Or photograph the sunset every day. You'll see that
at the equinoxes the sun rises directly to the east. In the summer, it
rises farther north and in the winter it rises farther south. Indeed,
when Jack Horkheimer tells  you it's the  summer or winter solstice,
you'll measure the sun's northernmost or southernmost rise and set.

That's how it works. That's how it has worked for as long as people have
been building stone circles and other monuments that mark the rising and
setting of the sun over the course of a year.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 28 Jun 2008 12:06 GMT
>That's how it has worked for as long as people have
>been building stone circles and other monuments that mark the rising and
>setting of the sun over the course of a year.

I did that, you freaking dumbass.  At the solstice the sun was supposed to
be in the correct position but it wasn't -- it was 26 degrees north.

DUH.  

Message-ID: <6q5c64986vhc6b0tnejdhaskka8acvfo8m@4ax.com>
Timberwoof - 28 Jun 2008 17:58 GMT
> >That's how it has worked for as long as people have
> >been building stone circles and other monuments that mark the rising and
> >setting of the sun over the course of a year.
>
> I did that, you freaking dumbass.  

You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
freaking dumbass.

> At the solstice the sun was supposed to
> be in the correct position but it wasn't -- it was 26 degrees north.

What's your latitude? You mentioned Maine and the Dakotas on your web
site. At the summer solstice, the sun is *expected* to rise and set
pretty far north of due east.

Got a globe? Do the experiment yourself with that and a lamp.

> DUH.  

Listen, any "shift" as major as the one you describe, *everybody* would
notice, especially all the astronomers, whose equatorial mounts for
their telescopes would stop working.

An equatorial mount is one on which the axes are right ascension and
declination, not azimuth and altitude. The "right ascension" axis points
to the North Star. The declination axis is at right angles to that. So
once a star is dialed in, all the astronomer has to do is keep the
telescope rotating along just the right ascension axis as the Earth
rotates.

If what you say happened, then this telescope would basically stop
working:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:HaleTelescope-MountPalomar.jpg
These guys would NOT keep this a "secret" because it's not possible to
keep that "secret".

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 02:16 GMT
>You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
>freaking dumbass.

Wanna bet?
Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 03:09 GMT
> >You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
> >freaking dumbass.
>
> Wanna bet?

Yes.

You should probably not go screaming insults at me. You should instead
follow the investigations I present to you and keep your mind as open as
you want mine to be. What evidence would you accept that would prove to
you that the Earth's axis has not shifted as you claim? How about the
old business about finding Polaris with the help of the Little Dipper?
Remember that? That would all have changed if you are right.

So where in the sky does the Earth's pole now point? If I went out
tonight (assuming it wasn't foggy) and just pointed my camera straight
north tilted up 38° above the horizon (for that is my latitude), I would
get Polaris at the center of the image, and I woudl not see the
traditional polar constellations rotating about it (see
http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/bmendez/ay10/2002/notes/pics/bt2lf0214_a.jpg
) but some other set of stars there. Which stars would I see there?

Now how about responding to the facts I've presented to you? How about
explaining to me, since I'm now south of the new Tropic of Cancer, why
the sun at its highest elevation at local noon was still south of the
zenith. If you're south of the Tropic of Cancer, then on the northern
Summer Solstice, the sun will be north of the zenith. (If you're on it,
the sun will be straight overhead at noon.)

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 03:19 GMT
>> >You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
>> >freaking dumbass.
>>
>> Wanna bet?
>
>Yes.

Okay.  I bet I'm right.

>You should probably not go screaming insults at me.

No one is screaming and calling you a dumbass is truthful.

>You should instead
>follow the investigations <snip>

Are you planning to donate your salary as a tax refund?
Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 04:06 GMT
In article
<timberwoof.spam-B8131A.19393128062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

> How come the sun is rising and setting in all the same places it's
> supposed to? How come I don't see "midnight sun"?

In article <h5ud64pj23oha9lpbr9h9298c91uj2ik7a@4ax.com>,
www.freedomtofascism.com <truth@r.us>  quoted me as writing:

> >How come the blue crayon is always the first one I break?

In article
<timberwoof.spam-76F844.19374628062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

> Sorry, that's a dumb answer. The Earth rotates 360 degrees every day,
> and everything in the sky moves all the way around. You're telling us
> that the Earth rotated 26° but nothing in the sky moved by that amount.
> Sorry, guy, but geometry doesn't work that way.

In article <kttd64d318u76l058fu9eoqs6vmkl7kg7h@4ax.com>,
www.freedomtofascism.com <truth@r.us> quoted me as writing:

> >Sorry, can you teach me to color a pretty picture?

In article
<timberwoof.spam-C662C3.19335628062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

> Go get a globe of the Earth. Put it at one side of your room, with the
> axis tilted 23 degrees towards a lamp that you set up at the other end
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> government conspiracy to cover up something that could not be covered
> up.

In article <smtd64pl8k1jb9klh745dkhddpho83231s@4ax.com>,

> >I need to go get some crayons and color a pretty picture

In article
<timberwoof.spam-3C7806.19091128062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

> In article <8rod649uh1snlf19aljfmetca0q1fkq23p@4ax.com>,
>  www.freedomtofascism.com <truth@r.us> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Summer Solstice, the sun will be north of the zenith. (If you're on it,
> the sun will be straight overhead at noon.)

> >> >You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
> >> >freaking dumbass.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Are you planning to donate your salary as a tax refund?

This is the most pitiful self-destruction of a kook I've ever seen. Brad
Guth showed more bullheaded courage under fire, sticking to his guns for
several weeks before descending into his wacky Nazi/Zionist/DARPA
conspiracy theory. But mister Axis Change, on the basis of one erroneous
measurement and serious lack of understanding of basic astronomy, has
presented an easily destroyed hypothesis. Instead of honorably backing
down and admitting he was wrong, inventing data to back up his claim, or
even trying to come up with convincing arguments that my questions are
irrelevant or I'm answering them wrong, he calls me a dumbass. What a
lamer. What a pitiful excuse for a dumbass lamer.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:08 GMT
>This is the most pitiful self-destruction of a kook I've ever seen.

You've really got to stop killing the messenger, a.shole.

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:14 GMT
<snip irrelevancies, logical fallacies and red herrings>

Gosh, there's nothing left.

The truth speaks for itself, it is self-evident:

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:14 GMT
>This is the most pitiful self-destruction of a kook I've ever seen.

You've really got to stop killing the messenger, dumbass.

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
Skywise - 29 Jun 2008 05:48 GMT
Yep....total break down of the one brain celled net crank, as
evidence of it's inability to post only one response. I predict
the lack of control will only increase and the breakdown will
further continue until the crank implodes.

Brian
Signature

http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 08:42 GMT
> Yep....total break down of the one brain celled net crank, as
> evidence of it's inability to post only one response.

He was doing fine, posting different variations of his kooky theme until
I started asking very specific questions and suggesting that he should
do some specific experiments and demonstrations. I think I broke him.

> I predict
> the lack of control will only increase and the breakdown will
> further continue until the crank implodes.

Shouldn't be long now. As you point out, he's posting just one post now
in response to everything. What's remarkable is  how quickly he
self-destructed.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

Skywise - 29 Jun 2008 05:46 GMT
> Instead of honorably backing
> down and admitting he was wrong, inventing data to back up his claim, or
> even trying to come up with convincing arguments that my questions are
> irrelevant or I'm answering them wrong, he calls me a dumbass. What a
> lamer. What a pitiful excuse for a dumbass lamer.

What do you expect from a net crank? You give him too much credit.

Now, expect the total break down of said crank.

Brian
Signature

http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 08:45 GMT
> > Instead of honorably backing
> > down and admitting he was wrong, inventing data to back up his claim, or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What do you expect from a net crank? You give him too much credit.

Well, despite all my experience with this sort of thing, I do try to be
polite.

Well. Let me revise that.

Because of all my experience with this sort of thing, I do try to be
polite.

> Now, expect the total break down of said crank.

It promises to be entertaining.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

!Harley! - 29 Jun 2008 06:12 GMT
> In article
> <timberwoof.spam-B8131A.19393128062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 117 lines]
> irrelevant or I'm answering them wrong, he calls me a dumbass. What a
> lamer. What a pitiful excuse for a dumbass lamer.

Good God, Timber....You made him like a dumbass. ;-)

Harley
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:19 GMT
<snip irrelevancies, logical fallacies and red herrings>

Gosh, there's nothing left.

The truth speaks for itself, it is self-evident:

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:19 GMT
<snip irrelevancies, logical fallacies and red herrings>

Gosh, there's nothing left.

The truth speaks for itself, it is self-evident:

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
Skywise - 29 Jun 2008 05:43 GMT
>>You don't have a whole lot of evidence on which to base calling me a
>>freaking dumbass.
>
> Wanna bet?

Failure to address evidenciary points noted. Another classic
hallmark of the average net crank.

Brian
Signature

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Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
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Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Jim Willemin - 28 Jun 2008 18:16 GMT
>>That's how it has worked for as long as people have
>>been building stone circles and other monuments that mark the rising
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Message-ID: <6q5c64986vhc6b0tnejdhaskka8acvfo8m@4ax.com>

That's funny - it was right where it was supposed to be from my house.  
Given that an abrupt change of latitude means an abrupt change in the
position of the axis of rotation, and given that the earth has a
significant momemt of rotational inertia, one wonders where the torque
would come from to do this.  Further, wouldn't the application of said
torque induce a wild bout of precession?  If you're an engineer, play
with the numbers and make a prediction.

Further, and again, an angular translation of the axis of rotation
would move the celestial pole, which would be immediately obvious to
every amateur astronomer on the planet, as well as every individual who
is even vaguely familiar with the night sky.  Given that I, at least, do
not see a 26 degree shift in either the position of the sun or the
position of the celestial pole, perhaps you should recheck your
observations (and before you repeat that a 2,000 mile offset would not
be apparent in the position of the celestial pole, remember Euler's
theorem, that any translation on the surface of a sphere is equivalent
to a rotation about an axis through the center of the sphere).

Further, and finally, if the axis shifted 26 degrees south as you
suggest, that means that the borders of 'the land of the midnight sun'
would also shift by 26 degrees - meaning that some major city in the
north temperate zone would suddenly not have any night at midsummer,
depending on just where the axis wound up.  This would be something of a
shock to the inhabitants, I suspect, and would surely make the news
somewhere, if only because of the savings in energy used in lighting.
Timberwoof - 29 Jun 2008 03:33 GMT
> >That's how it has worked for as long as people have
> >been building stone circles and other monuments that mark the rising and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> DUH.  

Go get a globe of the Earth. Put it at one side of your room, with the
axis tilted 23 degrees towards a lamp that you set up at the other end
of the room, at the same height. Rotate it so that your location is
right at "sunrise". The terminator (that's the name of the line that
separates the dark side of the earth from the light side) will go
northwest-southeast; a line from your location to the sun will in fact
go northeast.

While you're at it, tilt the glove at your new claimed axial
inclination. Rotate the globe so your location is at "noon" relative to
that lamp. Work out through this direct geometrical analogy how high the
sun should be above the horizon on the Equinox. At noon, go and measure
the real sun. Explain why it's not north of you.

Quit screwing around. Work out the geometry for yourself. Redo your
basic observations. It's okay to have screwed up and learned something
form it. It's not okay to then go pretend that there's some vast
government conspiracy to cover up something that could not be covered
up.

Signature

Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 03:36 GMT
>I need to go get some crayons and color a pretty picture

You do that, dinky-doo.
Jim Willemin - 29 Jun 2008 13:15 GMT
>>I need to go get some crayons and color a pretty picture
>
> You do that, dinky-doo.

We

I note with interest that not only do you snip without marking, but also,
oddly enough, the phrase to which you are responding, i.e. 'I need to go
get some crayons and color a pretty picture' does not, in fact, occur
anywhere in the post you claim to be quoting.  Thus, it seems that not only
are you silly for suggesting something that can be disproved by anyone at
any time simply by looking at the sky, and not only craven for not
responding to Brian's very clear suggestions for performing a simple
experiment to clarify some of the implications of your hypothesis, but also  
a liar of the worst sort, who puts words in other's mouths so as to
denigrate them.   It is a pity that you choose to so waste your time, but
having shown your colors, I can choose to no longer waste mine.
www.freedomtofascism.com - 29 Jun 2008 04:19 GMT
<snip irrelevancies, logical fallacies and red herrings>

Gosh, there's nothing left.

The truth speaks for itself, it is self-evident:

KNOW THE TRUTH
August 9, 2007 by mmc7
Look at the data with an open mind. Research the facts so you can be
informed. Don’t rely on government assurances or the statements of those
experts on the gov’t payrolls or those who are dependent upon gov’t grants
or gov’t contractors or licenses controlled by the government. Astronomers
and astrophysicists are all dependent upon the gov’t and gov’t contractors
to acquire access to satellites, observatories and other technical systems
and data in order to remain in their field of expertise. Universities are
dependent upon gov’t grant monies. Meteorologists and the media are licensed
and governed by gov’t entities.

If the gov’t does not want something known, then they will ensure the public
hears the version prepared for the public and the evidentiary  data will be
altered to support their official version.

Don’t take assurances from a corrupt gov’t. Check out the facts for
yourself.

http://axischange.wordpress.com/
Skywise - 29 Jun 2008 05:49 GMT
Wow...this crank imploded quickly.

Evidenced by the cloned replies to multiple posts. So terribly
predictable. I'm only wading through the ashes of the cranks
destruction.

Brian
Signature

http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise - 29 Jun 2008 05:42 GMT
> I did that, you freaking dumbass.

Ahhh...the typical response of the average net crank when
they are confronted with proof they are an idiot.

Brian
Signature

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Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Catoni - 30 Jun 2008 03:10 GMT
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:48:25 -0700, Timberwoof
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Message-ID: <6q5c64986vhc6b0tnejdhaskka8acvfo8m@4ax.com>

Uhm.... I've been an amateur astronomer for more then forty
years....I own a coupld of 'scopes including and 8" Celestron schmidt-
cassegrain scope..
 Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
still track the stars like I always have...

  Funny I haven't noticed any shift.... and Polaris is still where it
has always been in it's direction and position in my backyard relative
to the objects in that direction....

  Sorry.... no axis shift. I would know about it.. and so would my
friends in the R.A.S.C.

  What a waste of bandwidth with such fantasy...............
www.freedomtofascism.com - 30 Jun 2008 03:24 GMT
>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>still track the stars like I always have...

Earth has never been perfectly aligned to Polaris -- Earth until 2006 was
always on a 23.5 degree tilt.

So you're denying you ever saw the 23.5 degree tilt.
Skywise - 30 Jun 2008 05:07 GMT
>>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>>still track the stars like I always have...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> So you're denying you ever saw the 23.5 degree tilt.

Learn a little astronomy and celestial mechanics before you go
bashing it.

The 23.5 degree tilt is relative to the plane of the Earth's
orbit about the sun.

No, the North celestial pole is not EXACTLY on Polaris, but it
is very close. In fact, it is close enough that I can align my
equatorial mount directly on Polaris and it's good enough for me
to track objects for a several minutes without needing an adjustment
in the declination controls.

Mind you, this is a misalignment of less than 3/4's of a degree,
which is 35 times less of a misalignment than if the Earth's
axis had shifted 26 degrees as is claimed. If I can see the results
of a shift of less than 1 degree of alignment, don't you think
26 degrees would stand out pretty badly?

Brian
Signature

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Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
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Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

www.freedomtofascism.com - 30 Jun 2008 05:10 GMT
>>>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>>>still track the stars like I always have...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>The 23.5 degree tilt is relative to the plane of the Earth's
>orbit about the sun.

Explain how you can use the orientation of Polaris to judge the tilt of
Earth's rotational axis around the sun.

You can't.  That's the answer.

Why?

Because Earth isn't revolving around Polaris.

<snip bull>
Skywise - 30 Jun 2008 06:08 GMT
> Explain how you can use the orientation of Polaris to judge the tilt of
> Earth's rotational axis around the sun.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Because Earth isn't revolving around Polaris.

Oh come on!!! You can't be THAT clueless, are you? Seriously.
Are you that uneducated? Are you dumber than a 5th grader?
That may be a snide remark, but it's a serious question. I
realize I know more about astronomy than the average person,
but I find it hard to believe that even those with little
knowledge of the subject have such a hard time understanding
this.

This leaves only one of three possibilites:

1 - you are REALLY lacking an education.
2 - you have a learning disability.
3 - you don't actually believe this crap.

Choose one, but choose wisely.

Brian
Signature

http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

www.freedomtofascism.com - 30 Jun 2008 05:20 GMT
>>>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>>>still track the stars like I always have...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>The 23.5 degree tilt is relative to the plane of the Earth's
>orbit about the sun.

The 23.5 degree tilt (is) was relative to orientation of Earth's rotational
axis to the Sun, not Polaris.

Explain how you can use the orientation of Polaris to judge the tilt of
Earth's rotational axis relative to the Sun.

You can't.  That's the answer.

Why?

Because Earth isn't revolving around Polaris.

<snip bull>
www.freedomtofascism.com - 30 Jun 2008 05:31 GMT
>>>>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>>>>still track the stars like I always have...
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
><snip bull>

<crickets>
Landy - 30 Jun 2008 06:55 GMT
>>>>  Still lines up with Polaris perfectly... as is has for years....
>>>>still track the stars like I always have...
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> rotational
> axis to the Sun, not Polaris.

No it is not.  It is the tilt of Earth's axis relative to a normal to its
orbital plane around the sun, which is called the ecliptic plane.  That
means that the rotational axis always points at the same point in space
called the celestial pole (at least over short periods of time, discounting
precession for the purposes of this discussion).  In the northern hemisphere
this happens to be close to polaris, in the southern hemisphere it's a point
the southern cross subtends to.  Any change in the inclination of the axis
would move the position of the celestial pole by the same amount.  And that
HAS NOT HAPPENED!!

> Explain how you can use the orientation of Polaris to judge the tilt of
> Earth's rotational axis relative to the Sun.

See above - if you have a brain capable of understanding simple 3-d geometry
(which I seriously doubt).
Painius - 30 Jun 2008 09:04 GMT
Yup, yup, yup, the little ugly guy from unner the bridge
got hisself a li'l motor boat, and cut hisself a sugar cane
pole -- 'n now he's slowly floatin' through the dark waters
of a.a.v, a.a, a.g-w, 'n s.g.e, juss hookin' 'em leff 'n right.

Nexx, the li'l guy will spam us [tinu] all by advertising his
new book:

                   _Trolling For Fun And Profit_

(in your favorite bookstores by Joooly!)

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28angling%29

happy days and...
  starry starry nights!

Signature

Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.:  Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.:  http://painellsworth.net