Natural Science Forum / Earth Science / Earthquakes / July 2008

don findlay <don@tower.net.au> wrote in news:ff71c9aa-2523-48e1-940d-
1e6d1b732ed0@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com:

We've noticed.

Brian

I am glad to introduce you don findlay, who make his "coming out" three
week ago, claiming his support to mainstream geology (plate tectonic theory
and subduction theory).

I am glad to introduce you don findlay, who make his "coming out" three
week ago (see news:g2rldv$5uf$9@news.le-studio75.com and
news:g40iir$cip$1@news.le-studio75.com ), claiming his support to
mainstream geology (including plate tectonic theory and subduction theory).

I tried sorting through it, but from the perspective of my
hobby you're essentially trying to unravel the kind of
behavior that occurs at any transition/critical point. Such as
that narrow point where water turns to vapor...a cloud.
Or where facts and imagination are balanced...an idea!

This transition behavior is ...always...emergent. You cannot
understand emergent behavior by looking at the parts
of that system. Just as you can't understand a thought
by detailing the inner workings of the brain. Emergent
behavior requires using a science that's a scale in complexity
higher than used for the components. Such as using a brain
surgeon for a tumor, but stepping up to the broader scale
of  psychology to understand emergent thoughts.

By using geology and chemistry and such to explain
/emergent/ geological behavior as in these transition states
is applying the wrong science. To step up a scale in complexity
is to go from geology to ...biology. So, biology becomes the
proper science with which to answer your question concerning
the behavior or growth of the earth's surface.

In the end, I think you'll see the general behavioral characteristics
of your system reflected rather well when deriving them from
the more complex systems. And I think you'll see why plate
tectonics as it is today is incomplete, and why your idea
is so hard to prove. "They" are only considering the aspects
of the earth's surface that are predictable, the steady incremental
changes. While your idea involves the aspects of the surface
which involve sudden catastrophic changes that are inherently
chaotic and short lived. I say that because all emergent
behavior is a combination of those two kinds of change.

Of course, most would jump off here, asking "isn't using biology
to unravel plate tectonics exactly the wrong/opposite
way to go?"

But the logic to this point is unbreakable, so it must be true.
Let's have some faith in reason!

The problem at this point is easy to see, conventional biology
doesn't seem to have anything to do with subduction zones
or sea floor spreading or volcanoes and earthquakes etc etc.
How could biology possibly tell us about geology???

But ohmygosh this in from Los Alamos....

Universal template of life modeled

"This fractal branching network is universal in living systems.
Cardiovascular systems, respiratory systems, plant vascular
systems and even river systems are all examples of fractal
branching networks."

"When it comes to energy-transport systems, everything is a tree,"
http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/home.story/story_id/1568

So we've established a relationship between the most complex...human life..
to a lower level of complexity...'trees'.  How do we take the next step...DOWN
in complexity, to that of geology?  Do you see the direction this method is
going???
It's inversing...rigorously...all that reductionist objective methods do.
In complexity science we start with the most complex the universe has to
offer....LIFE...in order to understand the simplest the universe has to offer.
We look at the output first in order to understand the input.
We look at emergent properties first in order to understand how
the components created them.

Our beloved modern science does just the opposite eh? We derive fundamental
law from the properties of the simplest particles and forces etc....we begin
with simplicity and build up to understand the more complex.  We crawl
before we can walk. That is the instinctive approach, not one of reason though.

We start with the most complex...life...because emergent properties are
an output of a system, the more complex...the better defined are
the emergent properties. As we move up in complexity, emergent
properties become more reliable and  easier to see and observe.
And like an emergent 'market force' such emergent properties are
the single most important  variable in determining the future of a system.
Emergent properties guide and define the whole. Just as our intelligence
define us and guide our future. The importance and simplicity of
emergent properties become greater as complexity becomes greater.

But how can we connect a tree to geology, so to speak???

Ohmygosh...a simple equation...and importantly...an inverse
square relationship...seems to connect the two.

The Richter Law, for earthquakes, is a power law up to a point.

The fractal nature of nature: power laws,...

"Underlying the diversity of life and the complexity of ecology is order that
rejects the operation of fundamental physical and biological processes.
Power laws describe empirical scaling relationships that are emergent
quantitative features of biodiversity. These features are patterns of
structure or dynamics that are self-similar or fractal-like over many orders
of magnitude. Power laws allow  extrapolation and prediction over a wide
range of scales. Some appear to be universal, occurring in virtually
all taxa of organisms and types of environments."
http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Fractal-Nature.pdf

Earthquakes and "virtually all taxa"....related...Damn!

Power law

Power-law relations characterize a staggering number of natural patterns,
and it is primarily in this context that the term power law is used rather
than polynomial function. For instance, inverse-square laws, such
as gravitation and the Coulomb force are power laws, as are many
common mathematical formulae such as the quadratic law
of area of the circle. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law

So we've connected humans to trees to earthquakes. We've even
connected them to things like gravity and electricity.  Let's complete
the circle and connect humans ...directly...to earthquakes, so to speak.
So there can be no mistake there exists a simple universal relationship
between the highest and lowest order in the universe, from
thoughts to rocks.

How do we do that?

How is gravity and life related? Well, gravity wells and fitness peaks
both tend to clump together on their respective landscapes, and for both
the larger the peak, the greater the basin of attraction. If we we to be
placed  randomly anywhere on the space-time/fitness landscape, we'd
be more likely to be attracted to the wells, than not.
This is why increasing order in both the physical and living universe
steadily increases/evolves over time.
It's that simple.

Gutenberg-Richter law

"Modern attempts to understand the law involve theories
of self-organized criticality or self similarity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutenberg-Richter_Law

Self-organization!!!  So Darwin is the path to understanding how
earthquakes work???     Who would've thought?

Self Organizing System Faq
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

And here's the big clue as to how ALL in the universe is related.
And the following should provide a more accurate view of the
general properties of plate tectonics...btw.

Self Organized Criticality

"Self-Organized Criticality can be considered as
a characteristic state of criticality which is...
...at the border of stability and chaos"

Characteristics

Thresholds exists within the system
Pressure builds in the system until it exceeds
  threshold
Naturally Progresses towards critical state
Small agitations in system can lead to system effects called
  avalanches
This happens regardless of the initial state of the system

Power Law

Events in the system follow a simple power law
Most changes occurs through catastrophic
  event rather than a gradual change
Punctuations, large catastrophic events that effect the
   entire system

And how did they originally come up with this relationship that
explains how thing self organize/evolve..explaining the origin of life
...the most complex  the universe has to offer?

Sand Pile Model (the simplest system of all)

"This system is interesting in that it is attracted to its critical
state, at  which point the correlation length of the system and
the correlation time of the  system go to infinity, without any
fine tuning of a system parameter. This  contrasts with earlier
examples of critical phenomena, such as the phase  transitions
between solid and liquid, or liquid and gas, where the critical
point can only be reached by precise tuning (usually of temperature).
Hence, in  the sandpile model we can say that the criticality
is self-organized."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpile

Other applications

Evolution
Mass Extinction
Stock Market Prices
The Brain

( This is a great little intro)
http://chaos.swarthmore.edu/courses/SOC26/15-SOC.pdf

From sand piles to Darwin. AND ALL BETWEEN....when the whole
stands  persistently poised at the transition from order to chaos, where
complexity is highest....is the source of all emergent phenomena
known to exist.

So, for your particular emergent system,  plate tectonics.
How should we proceed?

Define the system, in terms of the two primary opposing variables
that represent order and disorder. Or represent static and chaotic.
Or behave as a solid, or a gas. Emergent behavior is a where both
behaviors are represented and it then acts as a fluid.

To fully understand plate tectonics, you would then have to look
at the behavior of ....either extreme. Not what is currently displayed.
If the two primary driving variables are internal heat of the earth
and the crust. Then the question becomes what happens when
the internal  heat changes? When it's low does the crust freeze
over like on Mars? When it's high does it turn over completely
as with Venus?

It seems to me the crust of the earth is a combination of the two
different behaviors. Modern methods would focus on the aspects
that are steady and with predictable change, like sea floor spreading
but are unable to  include the periodic catastrophic changes
that tend to erase all evidence of what came before, and which
come rarely and unpredictably. One-off events aren't very
suitable for nice neat predictable models.

The way to a ...complete...view of tectonics is to build a model
where the heat content of the system is altered enough to produce
the opposite possibilities...Mars or Venus. So you can see the
chaotic aspects emerge and put the regular and chaotic
behaviors together.

The fact that sea floors are all younger than 180 millions years
is a big clue. I would think the crust is much like a boiling pot
of water, where the lid, once in a while, is blown open and
collapses just as fast.

So I just googled plate tectonics and heat, and this paper from
Yale came up that I think is a good starting point.

Comments on Intermittent tectonics

"When we stop plate tectonics, on the other hand, new sea floor
is no longer produced, and immobile lithosphere would gradually
thicken by thermal diffusion..."
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/320/5881/1291a

Thicken?

s

Such an absolute retard