 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Natural Science Forum / Earth Science / Geology / July 2008...NASA says....ASPARAGUS... Can Grow on Mars!!!
Well...don't go dumping your asparagus stocks just yet.... NY Times Alkaline Soil Sample From Mars Reveals Presence of Nutrients for Plants to Grow By KENNETH CHANG "We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life whether past, present or future," said Samuel P. Kounaves of Tufts University, who is leading the chemical analysis, during a telephone news conference on Thursday. "The sort of soil you have there is the type of soil you'd probably have in your backyard." "Plants that like alkaline soil - like asparagus - might readily grow in the Martian soil" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/science/space/27MARS.html?ref=science > Well...don't go dumping your asparagus stocks just yet.... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > "Plants that like alkaline soil - like asparagus - might readily grow > in the Martian soil"http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/science/space/27MARS.html?ref=science It is a fair bet that this "soil" will lacks nitrogen, humus, and a practical atmosphere. On Jul 1, 2:43 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well...don't go dumping your asparagus stocks just yet.... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > practical > atmosphere. With unlimited public loot, all such failsafe things are possible. You need to have faith in the almighty dollar. Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > It is a fair bet that this "soil" will lacks nitrogen, humus, and a > practical > atmosphere. > It's also a tad cold for plants at the landing site, and I doubt the radiation from solar storms or hard UV hitting the surface is going to help the plants much. But the NASA PAO aways puts a positive spin on everything. Pat Pat >> It is a fair bet that this "soil" will lacks nitrogen, humus, and a >> practical [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > much. > But the NASA PAO aways puts a positive spin on everything. I think you're missing the point. Of course that statement is assuming otherwise acceptable conditions for life. The point is that ...despite... the radiation, the cold and all that, the soil at the /surface/ is still friendly to life. If the temperature and atmostphere changes, the soil would be 'ready to go'. I would've assumed it'd be the other way around. Where the conditions would be favorable first, leading to fertile soil later. And with water ice currently in contact with such soil, and the polygon patterns showing melting has occurred,....despite the harsh conditions...that's all rather astonishing! It's as if there's only one thing missing from the picture.....tantalizingly close to the Holy Grail of science, philosophy and religion. Mars will end up answering the age-old question of ... "Given earth-like conditions, how likely is life to emerge?" One in a billion? A million? Or every time! I'm absolutely certain that life will evolve...almost...every chance it gets. Given enough time and enough 'complexity' the most probable final state of any system is to converge to criticality, to the edge of chaos, where spontaneous order self-organization and evolution emerge. > Pat > > Pat > > trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote: > >> It is a fair bet that this "soil" will lacks nitrogen, humus, and a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > Pat If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." Understand I suspect Mars is sterile and life is rare. My vision of this "soil' and life goes like the following: space ships land and make glass and build domes and melt ice. Robots and machines at humus imported from earth, check chemistry and add microorganisms, plant seeds, etc. Then humans come to the green domes of Mars. > > trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote: > >> It is a fair bet that this "soil" will lacks nitrogen, humus, and a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > Pat If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." Understand I suspect Mars is sterile and life is rare. My vision of this "soil' and life goes like the following: space ships land and make glass and build domes and melt ice. Robots and machines at humus imported from earth, check chemistry and add microorganisms, plant seeds, etc. Then humans come to the green domes of Mars. At which time, humans will look and pronounce the Martian Domes good and say lets us make more domes of little good earths. Or alternatively NASA will loiter in low earth orbit and so will its Chinese and Russian clones and nothing will happen that matters. This is what I expect > If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." > Understand I suspect Mars is sterile and life is rare. > Well, if it's sterile, that's going to make life _really_ rare, isn't it? :-D Pat >> If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." >> Understand I suspect Mars is sterile and life is rare. > > Well, if it's sterile, that's going to make life _really_ rare, isn't it? > :-D Sterile, like hospitals with staph infections? Life aint so rare in a sterile environment... > trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote: > > If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Pat I meant life in other places in the solar system and beyond. On Jul 2, 11:40 pm, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Pat Flannery" <flan...@daktel.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > its Chinese and Russian clones and nothing will happen that > matters. This is what I expect Of surface exposed life on Mars is rad-hard, freeze proof and seldom if ever needs any drop of h2o. Meteorites of most any size are downright lethal, as well as their secondary impact shards being potentially lethal for a good km or more. Even arriving space dust should pretty much rip your face off. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > On Jul 2, 11:40 pm, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" > [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > > - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth I pretty much agree. As I dimly recall astronomers have noted a couple of small new craters on the moon as having occurred sometime over the last 30 or 40 years. I'd assume Mars would its share. Several years ago while out in the hinderlands where light pollution is less than down in the valley, I noted a flash in the sky, I was sky watching in the night. Anyway, it gradually dawned on me that I had seen meteor aimed more or less at position and it had burned up in the atmosphere. It is quite nice to have a meaningful atmosphere above one's head. Trig Perhaps 99% of incoming space debris as meteors and the nearly dust of such never impacts or otherwise encounters the surface of Earth, whereas at least 99% of that same incoming flack does interact with the surface of Mars, at damn near full speed ahead. On our naked moon it's another 100 fold worse off, because your moonsuit naked face, butt and everything else in between can get summarily nailed by most anything trekking past that's merely slightly above the horizon (thus from every possible direction except from the bottom up), not to mention those numerous direct encounters and of their unavoidable secondary shards that are good for delivering lethal debris/flack encounters at a another thousand km away from ground zero. So, if those incoming meteors and their secondary shards don't get you, chances are the gamma and hard-X-rays will put a serious dent in your frail DNA. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > > On Jul 2, 11:40 pm, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" > > [quoted text clipped - 145 lines] > > Trig <trigonometry1972@gmail.com> wrote in message news:7e373d1e-40a8-41e3-b8dc-078407cfa667@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > If life is found on Mars, I suspect it is nearly "everywhere." > Understand I suspect Mars is sterile and life is rare. That's what I'd think also. I think that earth-like conditions on Mars are intermittant and short-lived. Meaning life should be much the same, simple and hard to find. I think it's very likely that at some point underground they're layers where good conditions do exist and persist. >My vision of this "soil' and life goes like the following: >space ships land and make glass and build domes and melt ice. >Robots and machines at humus imported from earth, >check chemistry and add microorganisms, plant seeds, etc. >Then humans come to the green domes of Mars. I tend to limit future dreams to things that are just possible and barely in my lifetime. As in, what could be, if we suddenly started doing exactly all the right things to make that future become a reality. It seems science has been all about detailing what was/is, in order to gain predictability of the future. With the notion that gaining predictability of the future can help us shape and improve things. But like predicting the weather, this objective method shows it's clear limitations in terms of time and reliability. The real world cannot be predicted well enough in that way to make a big difference. But doing the opposite, having science begin by carefully designing the ideal future, then figuring out the path from ..there to here.. has a far better chance of creating a better future. We gain predictability of the future by making our vision happen! Not with countless computers crunching complex equations! Science should begin with our imagination of the future...a subjective frame of reference. In order to truly gain control and understanding of our existence. There is a way to make subjective observations agree between different observers. Complexity science has figured it out. Just like with what Einstein taught us, without including the observer in the observations, we can't know the true structure and simplicity of the universe. s > <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > s Technically, at a $billion/kg, we could grow that ASPARAGUS on Pluto, just couldn't export it back to Earth or anywhere else. What if that ASPARAGUS could be grown for $1000/kg on our Selene/moon (including produce shipments back to Earth)? Or, what-if that ASPARAGUS could be grown for $10/kg on Venus, where at least the water and energy for sustaining the enclosed anti- greenhouse environment need not be imported? - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth >> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth on VENUS? at 650 degrees, it is boiling lead. those ASPARAGUS would be charcoal. It is a bad example of global warming running away. VENUS is HOT. josephus  SignatureI go sailing in the summer and look at stars in the winter, "Everybody is ignorant but on different subjects" --Will Rogers Its not what you know that gets you in trouble its what you know that aint so. --josh billings. > >> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > josephus With unlimited renewable local energy and perhaps hundreds of teratonnes of easily obtained water within them thar acidic clouds, what's all that insurmountable? Haven't you ever heard of the Guth anti-greenhouse? How much Venus indoors snow and I would you like? Are you still insisting upon our doing Venus in the buff? - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > Well...don't go dumping your asparagus stocks just yet.... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > "Plants that like alkaline soil - like asparagus - might readily grow > in the Martian soil"http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/science/space/27MARS.html?ref=science Without water (at least not affordable water), that's going to be a neat trick. But then our DARPA has always been chuck full of neat tricks. Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > Without water (at least not affordable water), that's going to be a > neat trick. But then our DARPA has always been chuck full of neat > tricks. Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVI (2005) EVIDENCE FROM HRSC MARS EXPRESS FOR A FROZEN SEA CLOSE TO MARS' EQUATOR "We have found evidence consistent with a presently-existing frozen body of water, with surface pack-ice, around +5º latitude and 150ºeast longitude in southern Elysium. It measures about 800 km x 900 km and averages up to 45 m deep: similar in size and depth to the North Sea." http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1741.pdf > Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > > Without water (at least not affordable water), that's going to be a > > neat trick. But then our DARPA has always been chuck full of neat [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth At a minimal cost of at least another million hard earned bucks of our public loot per given kg worth of water (imported or locally obtained), most anything is possible. More than likely we're talking of our having to invest $100 million/ kg, especially more so spendy if taking into account the all-inclusive R&D thus far. Drill deep enough and Mars water should exist, although the drilling and extraction or conversion process is going to be spendy in more ways than just taking our hard earned public loot and wasting yet another precious decade, if not longer. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth If we manage to place a human turd on Mars, nothing will ever grow out of it, not even asparagus unless it's of a rad-hard hybrid form of asparagus that doesn't mind the more than sub-freezing cold, the vacuum and lack of water. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > Well...don't go dumping your asparagus stocks just yet.... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in the Martian soil" > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/science/space/27MARS.html?ref=science |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.