The Great Govt CO2 Power Grab
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z0n0b - 03 Jul 2009 06:20 GMT 18 Apr 2009
The inevitable has happened.
The Obama government has declared CO2-a nutrient required by plants to live, and a gas exhaled with your every breath-a pollutant. Let there be rejoicing in the ranks of activists.
Now, when I say that what occurred was "inevitable" it means that there was nothing anybody could have done to stop the government from doing what it lusted to do.
No facts would have stopped them, no arguments, no evidence, no sober quantifications of uncertainty. This was going to happen as soon as Obama was elected.
Control is what was wanted and control is what was had.
The EPA, an agency of our ever-expanding government, has no direct electoral oversight, by which I mean there is nothing you or I or any ordinary citizen can do to influence any of its actions.
The president can influence it and occasionally rein in its excesses, as can congress indirectly, but we folk are out of the loop.
I say this to make you feel a little better if you are upset at this, unfortunately not unprecedented, move to add more governmental control of our lives. There was nothing you could have done except possibly have voted for McCain-and it's not clear that that would have helped either.
So this EPA ruling was as natural an occurrence as CO2 being released in the breath of spotted owls in old growth forests.
Again, this was going to happen, it was unstoppable.
But, just for the fun of it, I will tell you why it was the wrong thing to do.
Those That Care created this ruling because they are concerned that human-caused changes in climate will be deleterious. There are two components to this belief.
The first is that humans influence the climate. I have said many times that this is trivially true. It is only a question of how much we do so.
So how much of the change in climate is due to us and how much is natural? Nobody knows. No body, not even an international body of climate scientists. There are some guesses, mainly in the form of forecasts that say temperatures will rise dramatically. But those models' predictions have, so far, been wrong in the sense that they say we should have been hotter than we have been.
But bad models that make wrong or unskillful predictions are certainly not a sufficiently powerful reason to restrain unavoidable bureaucratic zeal coupled to the belief that any change in anything (including climate) is some body's fault.
The second component is the most important part, so pay attention. It is the belief-and it is only a belief, a faith-that whatever changes in the climate that occur will be bad changes, or changes that will in some way be harmful to humans.
This is a belief because there is no direct evidence that shows climate change will be deleterious. There are scads of statistical studies that says that if the climate changes and if a laundry list of other conditions hold, then this or that bad thing will happen.
Understand: a changing climate itself is meaningless. The only interesting question is how that changing climate affects humans.
There have been hundreds, thousands, of studies that make guesses of how climate change will influence humans. The conclusions of these studies are statistical, and must be because by definition they are predictions. We have to wait and see whether these predictions are accurate. I can tell you that the level of statistical expertise in these publications has been poor at best and appalling at worst.
There is strong evidence of the investigator effect in these papers, which in these cases translates to an odd desire on the part of researchers to be the first to say how fast we are going to hell in a hand basket. My evidence for this is that there have been almost no studies that show any good thing that can happen in a warmer, more CO2 rich climate, and that it is impossible for there not to be good or helpful effects.
There is a hidden component here. Even if the climate changes significantly because of humans, and even if those changes might be harmful, then we must also believe that it will be impossible to avoid or mitigate the harm. We must believe that humans will not be able to effect a technological or economical solution to the problems we might face.
Now, if and only if all these things are true-if humans do significantly influence climate, and only harmful things can happen in a changed climate, and humans will be too stupid or will have no power to mitigate these harms-then the EPA has done the right thing.
Else it has done the wrong thing, which it obviously has.
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=531
Warmest Regards
Bonzo
Fran - 03 Jul 2009 07:54 GMT > 18 Apr 2009 > > The inevitable has happened. > > The Obama government has declared CO2-a nutrient required by plants to live, > and a gas exhaled with your every breath-a pollutant. <snip specious rant>
Pollution is the introduction of contaminants into an environment that causes instability, disorder, harm or discomfort to the ecosystem i.e. physical systems or living organisms .Pollution can take the form of chemical substances, or energy, such as noise, heat, or light energy. Pollutants, the elements of pollution, can be foreign substances or energies, or naturally occurring; when naturally occurring, they are considered contaminants when they exceed natural levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution
Note a couple of qualifications: "they can be "naturally occurring when they exceed natural levels".
The current concentrations of CO2 are above "natural levels" so talking about humans exhaling and spotted owls is ignoratio elenchi -- a red herring.
Merriam-Webster speaks of it being "especially man-made waste"
pol·lu·tion Pronunciation: \pə-ˈlü-shən\ Function: noun Date: 14th century 1: the action of polluting especially by environmental contamination with man-made waste
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pollution
So again, nothing to do with spotted owls.
Now the EPA has for years regulated vehicle and industrial emissions, or tried to anyway. It sets a benchmark target that indicates the pollution that is permitted and distingguishes that from the pollution that is excessive.
It works this out on the basis of what is unavoidable and what exceedds unacceptable levels of risk to humans. Thus, in the US, there are for example regulations on how much sulphur can be emitted from vehicle exhausts.
CO2 is an interesting onebecause clearly, some of the CO2 emitted is simply cycled between the atmosphere and various carbon sinks -- the oceans, terrestrial and marine biota etc. Some is naturally occurring, and some is the result of disticntively human processes. Even the anthropogenic CO2 gets a partial pass though because it's accepted that the usages of modern life demand it, so the question is "how much is acceptable?" That's not a new question but a very old one at least in terms of pollutants. It is now being applied to CO2, not to reduce existing concentration, but to slow its *accumulation* in the atmosphere and eventually stabilise it some time in the future, hopefully at a level that is consistent with avoiding uncontrolled or excessively rapid climate change.
Fran
Mauried - 04 Jul 2009 04:34 GMT >> 18 Apr 2009 >> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > >Fran What do you do when it is Governments who are the polluters. For example, all the Coal fired power stations in NSW are owned and operated by the NSW Govt. What do you do about pollutants that originate in other countries.
Fran - 05 Jul 2009 07:22 GMT > >> 18 Apr 2009 > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > What do you do when it is Governments who are the polluters. Sack those in charge? and replace them with people committed to best practice?
> For example, all the Coal fired power stations in NSW are owned and > operated by the NSW Govt. Phase them out. Apply scrubbers in the interim. Do offsets.
> What do you do about pollutants that originate in other countries The same thing -- only the people over there do it, perhaps in some cases, with the support of an international agreement and some funds -- such as Gordon Brown was proposing
Fran
gerry - 05 Jul 2009 12:57 GMT > > >> 18 Apr 2009 > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > Fran If you are the Goreacle, rich now thanks to pushing the threat of global warming, you hop on a private jet and fly somewhere with a nice beach to breathe in some fresh air. While in flight, you can chortle over the suckers who bought worthless carbon credits and how the new "cap and trade" proposal will make you and other insiders a fortune, enabling you to unload more worthless carbon credits. Its a great life, blame industry for global warming, part of a cycle that has been going on for millions of years. But when it comes to reducing a real danger, smokestack emissions from coal fired power plants, let those plants with those high smokestacks get a paid pass from air quality regulations by buying carbon credits. And if you are Gore, return to you mansion that uses up 12X the power of am average sized house and say it is okay, you have carbons credits. Maybe he even printed up those credits himself in his mansion's basement, who is to know. Not the government, which couldn't even catch Madoff.
Mauried - 06 Jul 2009 01:03 GMT >> >> 18 Apr 2009 >> [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > >Fran Very good, how about explaining exactly in practical terms how you go about doing this. For example, how do you go about sacking Govts, or forcing Govts to install scrubbers on their power stations.
Also explain how you go about forcing Govts in other countries to do the same.
China for example, is a one party State. The people cant sack the Govt even if they wanted too.
Fran - 06 Jul 2009 04:06 GMT > >> >> 18 Apr 2009 > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > For example, how do you go about sacking Govts, or forcing Govts to > install scrubbers on their power stations. There's this little thing called 'democracy', which applies to government but not to private corporations and businesses. You set performance parameters, get them independently monitored and results put on the public record.
That's roughly what happens when I teach. Periodically we teachers are audited, and we have to show evidence that our teaching programs match the specifications of the syllabus, our units of work match our teaching programs, and that our units of work are manifest in the work produced by our students and that the output is of an adequate standard for the cohort. If we fail these standards we get put under direct supervision to get "support" and our supervisor is accountable for our performance as well as us. If the failure is a serious one we can get sacked.
I see no reason why the bureacracy should be rtreated any differently.
> Also explain how you go about forcing Govts in other countries to do > the same. People in those countries would do it in much the same way
> China for example, is a one party State. > The people cant sack the Govt even if they wanted to. That is a problem but if China doesn't do the right thing one can always subject them to penalty tariffs to compensate for their backsliding -- providing everyone else is doing the right thing. I suspect if everyone else were doing the right thing they'd come to the party because they need western markets.
You can always follow the idea of creating a substantial fund disbursed subject to strict accountability to encourage reluctant developing states to do the right thing.
Fran
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