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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Microbiology / October 2004long-term memory
Can anyone help me find out what the nucleus is doing during long-term memory transcription?? I want to know if anyone has an idea of its structure. We know what the chromosome looks like during mitosos of non-neuroonal cells, but what about memory?? anybody?? Is the nucleus curled up or has it straightened out?? presumably the strand in the neuron is still curled up rather than 'inflated' as at metaphase; somehow the neurotransmitters operating via the synapses are locating the correct base during long term memory activation?? > Can anyone help me find out what the nucleus is doing during long-term > memory transcription?? > I want to know if anyone has an idea of its structure. We know what the > chromosome looks like during mitosos of non-neuroonal cells, but what about > memory?? anybody?? Is > the nucleus curled up or has it straightened out?? > Can anyone help me find out what the nucleus is doing during long-term > memory transcription?? > I want to know if anyone has an idea of its structure. We know what the > chromosome looks like during mitosos of non-neuroonal cells, but what about > memory?? anybody?? Is > the nucleus curled up or has it straightened out?? I want you to tell me some more about your message > presumably the strand in the neuron is still curled up rather than > 'inflated' as at metaphase; somehow the neurotransmitters operating via the > synapses are locating the correct base during long term memory activation?? what do you mean about strand in the neuron? ok, Randa, inside the nucleus, there must be a dna sequence just curled up 'listening' for signals that come in via the synapses.the there will be a base that corresponds to each synapse 'somehow'. this nucleus is inside each neuron. what's happening to the dna strand?? is it 'packaged up' or has it 'stretched out'?? Tony Fleming > > presumably the strand in the neuron is still curled up rather than > > 'inflated' as at metaphase; somehow the neurotransmitters operating via the > > synapses are locating the correct base during long term memory activation?? > > what do you mean about strand in the neuron? > ok, Randa, inside the nucleus, there must be a dna sequence just curled up > 'listening' for signals that come in via the synapses.the there will be a > base that corresponds to each synapse 'somehow'. this nucleus is inside > each neuron. what's happening to the dna strand?? is it 'packaged up' or > has it 'stretched out'?? In your previous post, are you suggesting that long term memory is specified in the nucleic acid sequence? As for the idea that there is a base for each synapse, I think you have a few misunderstandings of how DNA sequences work to specify the necessary components of life. well, mark, i'll agree with you its different; but how do see it otherwise tthan synapse-base specific signalling?? the sequence is being transcribed during a synapse response. Tony > > ok, Randa, inside the nucleus, there must be a dna sequence just curled up > > 'listening' for signals that come in via the synapses.the there will be a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > you have a few misunderstandings of how DNA sequences work to > specify the necessary components of life. the neuron is the mediator between the cell-specific action and the memory > well, mark, i'll agree with you its different; but how do see it otherwise > tthan synapse-base specific signalling?? the sequence is being transcribed [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > you have a few misunderstandings of how DNA sequences work to > > specify the necessary components of life. I am no expert, but as I understand it the memory has something to do with the patterns among neurons, and the connections that form between them. Clearly the synapses are important in signalling, i doubt there could be brain function without synaptic signalling. Genes are probably expressed in response to synaptic signals (again, i am not an expert on that), but if this happens I suspect it will be via the action of a network of sensory and regulatory proteins, which turn on/off genes as required. I personally know of no evidence that any specific base in DNA is corresponding to a particular synapse. Don't forget, the DNA in the brain is exactly the same DNA as in the rest of your body. > the neuron is the mediator between the cell-specific action and the memory > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>>you have a few misunderstandings of how DNA sequences work to >>>specify the necessary components of life. > the neuron is the mediator between the cell-specific action and the memory > > well, mark, i'll agree with you its different; but how do see it otherwise [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > you have a few misunderstandings of how DNA sequences work to > > > specify the necessary components of life. i would like to ask you to tell if you are interesting in the matter of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to do with . of course randa; my interests are as a mathematician and biophysicist; knowledge in this area will no doubt lead to some amazing breakthroughs in treating addictions, dementia ; and learning to name a few of course i sense your question is centred around any malicious use of such knowledge; and like the atomic scientists before and after WWII i sincerely hope we are wise enough to alert the population of any potential for 'psychobiological' warfare; God forbid, eh?? sincerely Tony > > the neuron is the mediator between the cell-specific action and the memory > > > well, mark, i'll agree with you its different; but how do see it otherwise [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to > do with . What is everyone talking about here ? There seems to be a premise being offered (unproven and undocumented ?) that in some way the complex human or mammalian experience of memeory invovles storage of data in DNA and that this phenomenon is in some way mediated by synaptic interactions and DNA. Well firstly may I ask if any data exists to support such a proposition. I personally beleive no data will be offered. Work back in 60's clearly demonstrated the inabilty of any know biological molecule to be capable of storing the kind byte stream required to encode the scope and volume of information involved with complex memeory streams. Relatedly there was of course the factor of speed of ~'translation'~ during recall (of memeory) which ( on occasion is near instantaneous) can not be reconcilled or explained by DNA functionality as we know it. Its given that on a purely stimulus response basis ( such as hormonal mediated behaviour or reactions in mammals) there are models where gene transcription etc etc is mediated by communciation of environmental data. This is bargain basement memeory not really in the league of complex cerebral algorthms. So is it possible to clarify what the author of the orgional post is actually talking about and then perhapes the converstation might go some where constructive. Its an interesting topic. Please do not mention triple stranded DNA (GASP !)or I will leave the planet. Yours N10 > of course randa; my interests are as a mathematician and biophysicist; > knowledge in this area will no doubt lead to some amazing breakthroughs in [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >> do with . dear N10, limbic lesion, mr anonymous (no sarcasm intended-just a friendly greeting) , read the following paper by west etal. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 1572963&dopt=Abstract especially read the discussion that the route of the calcium entry matters to neuronal transcription and some of the previous discussion on p. 11025. a colleague and i have recently put forward a hypothesis that the photon has a substructure and has a spectroscopy associated with it http://www.cymatics.org.uk/articles/current-events-bems-2004.html there's a pdf of the presented paper there too. in the paper is some work on a new theory called EM self-field theory which solves maxwell's equations via the FIELDS not the potentials; this maths solution translates across to the photon as well as hydrogen atom, so a challenger to quauntum theory and its uncertainty principle. so what i'm saying is NOT that there's a way of storing data in DNA but that's not a bad idea (so tell me more 'cos i think it's possible that data CAN be stored inside the quark region inside the gluon structures). what i'm saying is that ca 2+ and its fields can signal the part of the genetic code that is required by the specific synapse!!!!!!! > What is everyone talking about here ? > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>> do with . so, i take it that the dna is curled up inside the nuicleus in answer to my first question; > dear N10, limbic lesion, mr anonymous (no sarcasm intended-just a friendly > greeting) , read the following paper by west etal. [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] >>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>> do with . Dear TF Thanks for the refrences. They took me all morning to read and were very interesting indeed and of course explain your need for your question and a possible and elegant protomodel for memory. Quatum memmory ...way to go as they say :) I apologise if I seemed rude or dismissive . Good luck with your research. Best N10 > dear N10, limbic lesion, mr anonymous (no sarcasm intended-just a friendly > greeting) , read the following paper by west etal. [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] >>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>> do with . dear N10, that's a very kind reply; thanks!! actually we all take part in the 'scientific method' and we need to walk the gauntlet of opinion and hopefully we get garlands and not brickbats; but nevertheless the criticizor is an important entity in the overall process. so thanks for the kind wishes. you mentioned some work back in the 60's; i'd be grateful for any more info you might be able to furnish. especially references to papers which i might be able to get a hold of at the local library. i personally think the work on EMSFT is a happy day for us all as it presents many new possibilities in microbiology. in the area of memory and learning, it might herald some amazing steps forward towards understanding the physics of our own minds!! cheers Tony > Dear TF > [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >>>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>>> do with . Dear TF I was an undergraduate in those days so and Ive still retained my notes etc etc so I do what I can over next week to obtain data which you might find usefull. Have you read any of Peter Shelldrake's books or papers ? Best N10 > dear N10, that's a very kind reply; thanks!! actually we all take part in > the 'scientific method' and we need to walk the gauntlet of opinion and [quoted text clipped - 138 lines] >>>>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>>>> do with . Addendum oops Rupert not Peter Youmight care to read this http://www.sheldrake.org/intro/index3.html Best N10 > Dear TF > [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] >>>>>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>>>>> do with . what is interesting is how this might be related to schizophrenia; if the signals evoke the incorrect long-term memory causing an incorrect transcriptional response; this cause incorrect visual and audio memories to be processed; and any weak signal could evoke similar 'spurious' audiovisual memories. > Addendum > [quoted text clipped - 167 lines] >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> do with . such as dyslexia?? and what about autism?? > what is interesting is how this might be related to schizophrenia; if the > signals evoke the incorrect long-term memory causing an incorrect [quoted text clipped - 176 lines] >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> do with . > Dear TF > [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] >>>>>>> of the long term memory please tell me exactly what are you going to >>>>>>> do with . |
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