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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Optics / May 2007



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MICROSCOPY ADVICE

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Stjepo - 20 May 2007 14:32 GMT
I have been reading the comments in the sci.techniques.microscopy
group and I am impressed with the high level of knowledge that Kevin
has about microscopes. Hpe he read this.

I was given a used microscope  CORRECT TOKIO of SEIWA OPTICAL, in a
very good condition http://www.seiwaamerica.com/. It was built in 1988
as it stated in the certification card which comes with it.

My Biological Microscope Model SB-BI-1

1. Total Magnification: 40X, 100X, 400X, 1000X
2. Mechanical Tube Length: 160 mm
3. Tube: 30 degree, inclined binocular tube interpupillary distance
adjustment 55-75 mm on both tubes. Dioptric distance adjustment on
both tubes, 360 º rotatable.
4. HWF 10X (FN 16.5x pair)
5. Nosepiece: Quadruple with click stops
6. Objective (Din Type) 4X (0.10), 10X (0.25), 40X (0.65), 100XOIL
(1.25)
7. Focus Adjustment: Coaxial Type/ Coarse & Fine adjustment (2 mm
travel / 0.002 mm sensitivity with safety stopper)
8. Mechanical stage 120 mm X 122 mm with coaxial handle. Travel /35
mm X 75 mm (no idea, maybe)
9. 6V/20W Halogen Lamp Transmitted illuminator with intensity
regulator
(low voltage 6V/3.5ª) Built in transformer 220-240VAC
10. Condenser: Abbe type N.A. 1.25 condenser with iris diaphragm,
filter
Rack & pinion focusing mechanism.
11. Dimensions 380mm(H)X300mm(D)X210mm(W)
12. Weight: 6.8Kg
13. Wood Carrying Case

I been making some pictures from it and now I want to improve my
Microscope with some devices, therefore I need an expert advice to buy
the following:

A. TRINOCULAR HEAD: As the original is very expensive I have found the
following offer:

from http://www.radicalindia.com/

"We can supply Trinoclar Head suitable for Saiwa Optical Microscope.

The Inclination angle is 45º, costing US$ 105.00 each (ex-factory).

Photograph attached."

Also they promise to give me the correct circular attachment as mine
is 52 mm.

Is it worth or I am wasting my money (original SEIWA trinocular head
costs US$ 400)?

B. CONTRAST CONDENSER: Their offer is:

Brand New Phase Contrast Condenser with Objectives 10x, 20x, 40x &
100x Oil with telescopic eyepiece will cost @ US$ 425.00 each Nett Ex-
Factory.

Will it make a great difference? Currently I am taking pictures which
look like the ones taken with this device using a glass with a dark
point in the filter rack of the condenser. Is it worth?

C. DARK FIELD: Also they offer me the following:

Dark-Field Attachment @ US$ 274.00 each

Consists of dark-field condenser and 100x oil immersion with built-in
iris diaphragm.

I am asking for an advice because I am completely ignorant in this
subject and I have no place to ask.  Any comment from you will be
appreciated.

Thanking you in advance.
Kevin Cunningham - 21 May 2007 02:06 GMT
I have been reading the comments in the sci.techniques.microscopy
group and I am impressed with the high level of knowledge that Kevin
has about microscopes. Hpe he read this.

I was given a used microscope  CORRECT TOKIO of SEIWA OPTICAL, in a
very good condition http://www.seiwaamerica.com/. It was built in 1988
as it stated in the certification card which comes with it.

My Biological Microscope Model SB-BI-1

1. Total Magnification: 40X, 100X, 400X, 1000X
2. Mechanical Tube Length: 160 mm
3. Tube: 30 degree, inclined binocular tube interpupillary distance
adjustment 55-75 mm on both tubes. Dioptric distance adjustment on
both tubes, 360 º rotatable.
4. HWF 10X (FN 16.5x pair)
5. Nosepiece: Quadruple with click stops
6. Objective (Din Type) 4X (0.10), 10X (0.25), 40X (0.65), 100XOIL
(1.25)
7. Focus Adjustment: Coaxial Type/ Coarse & Fine adjustment (2 mm
travel / 0.002 mm sensitivity with safety stopper)
8. Mechanical stage 120 mm X 122 mm with coaxial handle. Travel /35
mm X 75 mm (no idea, maybe)
9. 6V/20W Halogen Lamp Transmitted illuminator with intensity
regulator
(low voltage 6V/3.5ª) Built in transformer 220-240VAC
10. Condenser: Abbe type N.A. 1.25 condenser with iris diaphragm,
filter
Rack & pinion focusing mechanism.
11. Dimensions 380mm(H)X300mm(D)X210mm(W)
12. Weight: 6.8Kg
13. Wood Carrying Case

I been making some pictures from it and now I want to improve my
Microscope with some devices, therefore I need an expert advice to buy
the following:

A. TRINOCULAR HEAD: As the original is very expensive I have found the
following offer:

from http://www.radicalindia.com/

"We can supply Trinoclar Head suitable for Saiwa Optical Microscope.

The Inclination angle is 45º, costing US$ 105.00 each (ex-factory).

Photograph attached."

Also they promise to give me the correct circular attachment as mine
is 52 mm.

Is it worth or I am wasting my money (original SEIWA trinocular head
costs US$ 400)?

B. CONTRAST CONDENSER: Their offer is:

Brand New Phase Contrast Condenser with Objectives 10x, 20x, 40x &
100x Oil with telescopic eyepiece will cost @ US$ 425.00 each Nett Ex-
Factory.

Will it make a great difference? Currently I am taking pictures which
look like the ones taken with this device using a glass with a dark
point in the filter rack of the condenser. Is it worth?

C. DARK FIELD: Also they offer me the following:

Dark-Field Attachment @ US$ 274.00 each

Consists of dark-field condenser and 100x oil immersion with built-in
iris diaphragm.

I am asking for an advice because I am completely ignorant in this
subject and I have no place to ask.  Any comment from you will be
appreciated.

Thanking you in advance.
__________________________________________--

Stjepo,  Thanks for the kind thoughts.  If you just want to have fun then
you a microscope to have fun with, real cheap and very poorly built.  If fun
includes dropping microscopes out of windows, this is the one to use.  On
the other hand this is *very* poorly designed and made.  No one in their
right mind makes 160mm microscope anything any more, buying more 160mm for
anything serious, like hobby microscopy, is a bad idea.  I have never seen
either a Radical or a Seiwa and I want to keep it that way.

Now what I'd recommend is buying used.  Find a good microscope from any
quality manufacturer (Olympus, Nikon, Carl Zeiss or Leica) and build from
there.  Now it may be a 160mm instrument but the objectives were well made
and you can get things like 60X objectives, super wide field eyepeices and
high performance objectives if you look carefully.

On to dark field.  A hobby is all about having a good time.  If dark field
makes you happy, buy dark field, if actually seeing the specimen makes you
happy dark field is of no use.  My customers don't use dark field.  The one
use I had quit using it because there are easier way to do their technique.
One problem with dark field is false negatives, DF has tons of problems with
false negatives.  Thats what led to dark field being abandoned by 1970 for
all intents and purposes.

The microscope you have has is a student instrument at best, its a bad
imitation of the Olympus CH-B, its made to be used, and beaten up, about 3
hours a day.  The illumination isn't enough for bright field much less
anything else.  You might want to move up to something really good and long
lasting.

Thanks again!

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
Stjepo - 22 May 2007 08:45 GMT
Dear Kevin:

Thank for your honest answer. As it looks I own a "poorly built
Microscope" not to be used for nothing serious. The place it has been
used for the last 13 years was a scientific research centre, I assume
it was used only a few times as it looks like new, otherwise this
"poorly built microscope" would be completely ruined.

Paramecium's, rotifers some amoebas and me have voted for the
microscope to stay, considering the possibility of  throwing it
through the window was not a bad idea, specially if the head of my
"loved" neighbour was to be the target but the first issue won. Not
being able for me to get a new "good brand used microscope" I am
condemned to stay with my "crap" for a while until I learn more about
Microscopes.

I had prepared a PDF with some of the pictures I have taken with this
"poorly built microscope" and I even have tried to send it to your
email but it rebound every time I did.

Till the moment I get a new "good brand used microscope" I will not
ask  for more advice to an expert in good brands. My mistake was, and
allow me to make a resemblance, I requested advice of my little "FORD"
to an expert in "MERCEDES", "FERRARI" or  "BMW".

The only thing that really confuses me is, how do you know it is a
"shitty stuff"?  if, using your own words, you "have never seen either
a Radical or a Seiwa and I want to keep it that way". Perhaps because
as you say "No one in their right mind makes 160mm microscope anything
any more", but at the same time you add "...Now it may be a 160mm
instrument but the objectives were well made and you can get things
like 60X objectives, super wide field eyepieces and high performance
objectives if you look carefully". Do you know for sure that the
"Correct Tokyo" objectives are "poor quality"?

Thank you very much for your time.

Stjepo
Kevin Cunningham - 22 May 2007 12:49 GMT
> Dear Kevin:
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Stjepo

Stjepo,  I have made my living fixing and selling microscopes since 1977.
In that period I have never seen any of the brand names you were kind enough
to give.  There hasn't been a serious maker of 160mm tube length 'scopes
since 1992.  Prior to that most instruments were of a fixed tube length,
either 210 (industrial) or 160mm, biological.  The objectives were corrected
for the 14 or so things that they have to be corrected for, now some makers
do some of this at the eyepiece and some at the objective (think of chrome
free Nikons) so you would only use the one makers objectives.  This is why
older, cheaper 160mm tube length microscopes are a good buy for an amateur.
There are microscopes and optics dating back to Abbe's invention of modern
optics in 1872.  Modern instruments are so different from an amateurs that
its not funny.  Motor drive, confocal, multi-photon, telecenterism, auto
focus are all modern catch words plus now Dr. Hell, Max Plank Inst., is
having a 'scope he designed using a new theory of microscopy built by Leica,
an American company.

Industrial use accounts for probably 65% to 70% of microscope sales.  New
amateur sales isn't a blip on the meter.  If I had your microscope I'd leave
it alone and enjoy the heck out of it.  Then I'd start looking for an older
instrument to add phase, nomarski, fluoresecence, etc. to for even more fun.
I'd wouldn't buy DF ever, but that's just me.

Decades ago I had a customer who informed me that his group had just bought
a Swift and he'd show me!  This cheap 'scope could do everything....except
last.  A couple of years later they threw it out.  Good stuff lasts, bad
stuff doesn't.  Its sad to say but I bet I know 99% of the good instruments
ever made.

Thank you for your reply,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
Stjepo - 28 May 2007 09:08 GMT
Kevin;

Is more than probable that you are right. Experience is important and
I appreciate it. From one of your comments I have improved the vision
of my current microscope changing the light from 20W to 30W (the
transformer is able to cope with this change).

Regards

> > Dear Kevin:
>
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
Kevin Cunningham - 28 May 2007 15:15 GMT
> Kevin;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Regards

Stjepo,

Now thats clever!

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS

>> > Dear Kevin:
>>
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>>
>> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
 
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