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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Optics / June 2007Olympus PMG
Hello all, I'm new to this forum, so if anything I ask has been answered before, I would be happy to learn how to find the answer... I have just gotten a, I think, very beautiful Olympus PMG metallograph. It's from the 1960's I believe. I am in the very beginning stages of restoring it. So really right now I'm just doing an inventory of what's good, bad, broken, etc. I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let me know. My guess is I'll become friends with a machinist... I would like to know if anyone may have technical documentation about this instrument so that I can know how to take various things apart and if there are hidden small parts that I'll likely loose if I'm not aware they exist... All existing mechanically moving parts need to be cleaned of their old grease and new grease applied. Does anyone have suggestions as to what kind of grease should be used where? I have a protocol from Olympus on how to clean optical surfaces, but when it gets to cleaning internal prisms and mirrors, it says to contact a local technician.... Any advice on how best to clean these internal optical surfaces, or what not to do, etc. Here's a bit of a brain teaser for you. The instrument came with a eye piece mounted micrometer but I can't figure out the scale that is being used. The piece has the following markings on it: On the body that houses the micrometer mechanism - OSM 202575 On the eyepiece itself - Olympus Elgeet R10X I am assuming the 10X is the magnification of the eyepiece, I don't know what the R means. I put a stage micrometer on and measured the following: 0.05 mm = 57 units on eye piece micrometer 0.10 mm = 114 units 0.15 mm = 171 units 0.20 mm = 228 units. Does anyone recognize what unit system this eyepiece micrometer works in? Or what this eyepiece may have originally been used for? Thank you very much for your time. dj > I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is > sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let > me know. My guess is I'll become friends with a machinist... I don't have any specific knowledge of this microscope, but based on experience with other instruments, it may well be a common metric size, M2 or M3. > > I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is > > sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > experience with other instruments, it may well be a common metric size, M2 > or M3. Thank you, the threaded portion is likely as you say, but it has a very specific sized shaft that the lever pivots on, and that would have to be quite precise. It would not be an off the shelf common piece. I can take measurements of the broken piece and post it if anyone would find that useful... dj > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > dj I have parts diagrams for the Olympus MG and PMD / PME that I can scan for you: no clue how close these are to your PMG > I have parts diagrams for the Olympus MG and PMD / PME that I can scan > for you: no clue how close these are to your PMG- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I don't think they would be exactly the same, but i'm sure there are interchangeable parts and it would be very useful if you could scan them and send them to me. I can also scan the owners manual I have which does have the optical path of this instrument if you (or anyone else) would like that... The PME is actually fairly close, but they are different instruments. I'm not familiar with the MG or PMD. dj > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > dj There are several grease maker that I use. I use only synthetic greases, they last a lot longer. One good quality maker is Dow-Corning, their 111 and 43 (?) work well. I still use the 111. Mostly I use Nye lubricants from TAI (http://easyweb.abtnet.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/ecproductlist@public?tn=10 59_grease.tem). Their assortment of synthetic greases will run less than $90.00 and last for ever. Get a small artists paint brush to apply it at an artists store. Cleaning internal prisms, etc. is the same as cleaning the surfaces of lenses. BE CAREFULL! Don't act like an a.s. Use either Kimwipes or Kleenex tissues, just the tissues. The put a small amount of Windex and Alcohol on and gently wipe the surface. Then throw the wipe away and gently wipe with a dry wipe. Never clean dry. Always clean wet. Don't get overly worried about what alcohol you use, I buy mine at the local hardware store. The point is to have a high vapor pressure and a safe product. The high vapor pressure is what cleans the lens and it evaporates rapidly meaning it won't penetrate into the lens. Its alcohol so its safe, I plan to drink so alcohol containing beer this evening so I know its safe. Its best to use a set of Menda bottles or an imitation of a Menda. They dispense a very little every time you hit the top. That works best. Oh, these are metric, don't use inch tools. Thanks and let us know what happens. Kevin Cunningham SMS > <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > Kevin Cunningham > SMS Kevin, Thank you. This question has had me at a complete standstill. I was going to tear apart the stage last night and then realized I still didn't have a clue as to what grease to use putting it back together... One comment, I was reading somewhere (darn, wish I'd marked the source) that alcohol shouldn't be used on older microscopes. Oh, yes, there it is, found it on the yahoo group Gordon Cougar runs, The Clean Microscope published by Zeiss. Now maybe this only applies to Zeiss? I don't know. On page 11 of that document under point 5 it says: " Do not use ethanol or acetone for the cleaning of older microscopes." It then lists a bunch of Zeiss' older scopes. Do you have any thoughts on this? Very nice suggestion on the Menda bottles. Also, excellent suggestion on how to test for safety on the alcohol... I think I'll have to try tonight also, do you think wine as a medium will work as well as beer? :) Thanks again, dj >> <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > > dj Wine works darn well! Now on to the dull stuff. Alcohol works well for cleaning all objectives in my profesional experience and I am Zeiss trained. Zeiss and most makers are quite leary of acetone since a lot of bright work is now plastic, particularly modern stereos headed for cleans rooms. You are usually told not to bring it if your going to service one of their modern microscopes but it is still usefull, just be quite carefull around modern instruments. Alcohol isn't really a problem, never has been, probably won't be. If your working on an instrument built before 1960 (aprox.) if you use a whole bunch or soak a lens in alcohol it could disolve since way back when the lenses were glued with Canadian Balsam that dissolves in alcohol. How ever if you use a small amount it will evaporate before it ever touches the glue. I've used alcohol of various descriptions (yes, including Vodka) since 1977 and it works well. I've never dissolved the glue between two elements, not even intentionally. Its darn hard to do. Again, remember that what I use is high vapor pressure chemicals, they evaporate rapidly. Why I use alcohol, acetone and heptane is for personal safety. The least safe of these chemicals is the acetone. Thats why I recommend Menda bottles, the chemicals are safe and the Menda makes sure you have a very little in front of you. Heptane is a very good chemical for removing old grease and cleaning up old parts. However you will probably have to buy five gallons and there's no way you need five gallons. Back in the good ole days I learned to use ether and benzene which Zeiss approved of. Now the Zeiss techs were in nice, clean, well ventilated rooms, I was in a closet cleaning a giant Ultraphot. I went a bit crazy so I got rid of the benzene and soon got rid of the ether. There great stuff, work well, but they can kill you. Thanks, let me know how it goes! Kevin Cunningham SMS > <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] > Kevin Cunningham > SMS Kevin, How interesting. OK, I'm going to ask more stupid questions here. I am hearing you talk about lenses, but just to be on the safe side, are you also saying alcohol is OK on the internal optical surfaces like the mirrors, prisms and all those internal surfaces that the cleaning manuals supplied with the instrument all end up saying go get a technician if you want to clean these? I'm worried especially about the mirrors. I don't know how they were made and I'd hate to strip off a fine coating that I don't know about. Second question, a guy here at my work says he was told that a really great lens cleaning solution is a mixture of 50% Toluene and 50% Ethyl Alcohol. Do you have any thoughts on this concoction? I don't actually know when this microscope was made, but others who know a whole lot more than I do, have told me it looks like the 1960's. My guess is on the early side since it has those three photography systems, with one being "dry plate photography". I will indeed let you know how it goes. I'm feeling mighty confident at this point... well, OK, maybe just a couple steps above scared to death....I think that test for alcohol safety might help here... Thank you very much for the excellent advice. dj >> <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 208 lines] > > dj dj, I've been in this business since 1977, if alcohol destoyed optics I think I might have detected it by now. Alcohol has been used since around 1840, you think some one in the business would have picked it up. Oh, my ex-boss married a woman who ran the Carl Zeiss alcohol re-distill units. Actually for cleaning internal optical parts I use a little bit of Windex and alcohol on a Kim-Wipe. Then I remove it with a clean Kim-Wipe. You can use a diamond holding tweezer and roll a Kim-Wipe around the tip using the tip. Some times you will extend the tip with the Kim-Wipe, make it pointy or some times the tip will need to be very close, just depends on what your cleaning were. Never clean dry. Now I don't use toluene all though it works well since it can kill you and I would really resent being dead. Like I said, any high vapor pressure chemicals all work, I just want to use chemicals that won't kill me. Ether is one of the best chemical I ever used. It, however, can explode plus kill you in kinder, gentler ways. The explosions can happen from ether or a hybrid that ether grows as it ages. I stopped at the "ether can kill you" part. One point here is I'm a pro, I do this daily so I have to be extra carefull. Every thing has to travel whether in a car or on mass transit. Safety really has to come first. (sigh) I've heard all kinds of stories about how to clean 'scopes. Most of them work but are slow, I had to learn from makers how to clean stuff and do it safely and promptly. Charge some one for a days work at my fees for a tiny microscope and there will be problems. Of course your work area should always have plenty of light, a window and lots of ventilation. Let me know how it goes. Kevin Cunningham SMS > Heptane is a very good chemical for > removing old grease and cleaning up old parts. However you will > probably have to buy five gallons and there's no way you need five > gallons. Coleman fuel or even the Walmart brand camp fuel is a ready, inexpensive source. > I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is > sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let > me know. My guess is I'll become friends with a machinist. I can help you identify a standard mechanical part, or custom duplicate a non-standard one. http://www.truetex.com/micad.htm > > I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is > > sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.truetex.com/micad.htm I'll be pulling this microscope apart tomorrow afternoon. I hope to go through all the optics and all mechancial moving parts and put it back together. I will see about getting out the part of the screw out of the microscope body that sheared and will take measurements so that it is defined. I'm running out now to pick up proper cleaning materials and solvents. I'll post back to you the dimensions of the sheared screw. Thank you to everyone that has shared their knowledge and advice. I'll be back tomorrow with an update.... dj > > I need the screw that holds the fine focus lever in place, it is > > sheared off. If anyone knows a source for these kinds pf parts, do let [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.truetex.com/micad.htm Richard, I was looking over your web page about photographic adaptors. Very informative and interesting. I am interested in adapting a digital camera to this microscope. Would you be willing to look at this with me? I am not certain if I should use the 35mm port or possibly remove the mechanical mechanism of the flat plate and push a digital camera up there. In some esthetic sense, I seem to like the idea of having the digital camera completely invisible rather than hanging it off the 35 mm port. There may be very good reasons why not to do this, but I know nothing about this and would very much like to bounce ideas and thoughts off someone much more knowledgeable than I... Kevin, Thank you for the reinforcement of the proper, well, perhaps better said, a proper, way to clean this instrument. What a tremondous resource to have such excellent access to knowledgeable people willing to share years of hard gained knowledge...I thank you all very much. dj For optical reasons, if the camera lens is not removable, it must be aimed into an eyepiece (or equivalent) of the microscope, not just into a tube. If the camera lens is removed, the microscope will form an image in it without an eyepiece (direct objective coupling) or with an eyepiece (positive projection). > I am interested in adapting a digital > camera to this microscope. Would you be willing to look at this with > me? Sure, I have another pending inquiry from someone who wants to adapt an Olympus PME metallurgical scope, where there is a Polaroid port. > > I am interested in adapting a digital > > camera to this microscope. Would you be willing to look at this with > > me? > > Sure, I have another pending inquiry from someone who wants to adapt an > Olympus PME metallurgical scope, where there is a Polaroid port. How interesting is that! I was inquiring about how to convert a Olympus PME Polaroid port throug Qiogtiq, what used to be optiem.... I would like to do the same, so if you get the PME figued out, you have a second customer... As to the PMG: I've spent the better part of last ngiht and today taking it apart, cleaning, and reassembling. This if going to take a ton of time. Of course, I'm really fussy, really curious, not trying to do it fast, but trying to understand everything I touch. So far, I've completely cleaned and put back to gether the entire mechanical stage, focus, and begun cleaning optics. I've run into a bit of a road block on the optics as I need one of those tools that has small round ends that can be spaced precisely into the little round holes that hold things together. I don't know what these are called. I'm not certain I'm going to go inside the whole microscope and clean all the internal optics. I'm looking for a way to get the mechanical prism movement assembly cleaned and regreased without taking everything apart. I'm just a bit worried about getting all the internal optics all lined up if I take them apart. I will clean the surfaces I can reach without removing things. Optics: The PMG is unusual in the fact it does not use projection lenses in the photographic optics. It uses standard eyepieces. I'll have to see how I can take photos and post them somehow so folks can see what this microscope looks like. It's quite unusual. So no matter where I put the digital camera, the image will be shot through an eyepiece. It's looking good at this point. I have put it together a couple times today to play with, and it is getting so much clearer. I think most of the sludge was on the external surfaces of the optics.... Inside looks better than I had initially thought.... dj > I've run into a > bit of a road block on the optics as I need one of those tools that > has small round ends that can be spaced precisely into the little > round holes that hold things together. I don't know what these are > called. Spanner. http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/Browse.cfm?categoryid=776 http://anchoroptics.com/catalog/subcategory.cfm?catid=111 >> > I am interested in adapting a digital >> > camera to this microscope. Would you be willing to look at this with [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > round holes that hold things together. I don't know what these are > called. Spanner wrench. You can get one at a really good hardware store, Handy Hardware in Atlanta, or on the web at places like McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) or Techni-Tool (www.techni-tool.com). The cheapest and probably the best way is to buy a needle nosed pliers of the regular, large size and cut it down using a grinding wheel or a file until it fits. Oh, buy the simplest spanner wrench you can find. The ones built for camera repair are just to complex, they do everything but work. Thanks, Kevin Cunningham SMS > I'm not certain I'm going to go inside the whole microscope and clean > all the internal optics. I'm looking for a way to get the mechanical [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > dj > <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > > dj Kevin, I was looking at the web references for these tools, then checked McMaster-Carr (one of my favorite catalogs) and have decided for what I do, I'm going to hit garage sales and modify some good quality needle nose pliers that I can pick up for $0.50 to a $1.00... Then I'll do the old grinder modification of the points. I may make two or three this way. The old blacksmith in me looks at $70 to $80 for a tool of this type and says: I can do that for a whole lot less and just as good. Heck, I am a metallurgist, I can even heat treat these babies to make them just what they need to be... At this point, I'm looking for the screw that holds the fine focus arm. this is a flat head screw with a 4 mm plain shank going to a 3 mm threaded end. Once I have that, I'm almost done. I have not finished the cleaning of the OC2 eyepieces, those are the 23 mm eyepieces used on the photography end. But after cleaning the top end, this is one crisp clear microscope. It must have taken me an hour to get the polarizing filter on the rotating filter turret to work. It was gummed up and dead stuck. I thought I was going to end up breaking it... But as luck would have it, it now is working smooth as silk... This is slow going... But more fun than I've had in ages... And, I am learning a whole lot... dj >> <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > dj A real cheap, good tool to have is a plastic pipettor, a plastic bulb on a thin pipe. I get those at hospitals, I ask and take one, there are tons of them around. These allow you to pick up a small amount of liquid from the Menda bottle and carry it to were you need it. One part of this craft is tool making. When asked I can point out all the tools I made, no one has ever asked twice though. My old boss asked the day after I was hired to make out a tool list. I spent the rest of the day writing up and investigating tool sources. My boss read all the papers I handed him and told me that the heck with this list, he had a lathe that the Carl Zeiss folks had given him when he left, I could come over in the evenings and we would make tools. Yeah, right, I thought. My boss liked Scotch and I figured that in 2 or 3 years I'd have a tool kit and a bad liver. I convinced him to buy all the stuff then I went to work for a day or two and modified what needed to be modified. I still have to make a lot of stuff, I have a screw driver I modified as a pry bar, when I finally cut it to small I get another screwdriver and start over. Sounds like your doing well! Oh, the cross point screws that look like Phillips but have a dot on the top are Pratt-Reed. Get a set of these from McMaster. The job will look a good bit better with the Pratt-Read. Thanks, let me know how it goes. Kevin Cunningham SMS > <dljo...@bestweb.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > Kevin Cunningham > SMS Kevin, Making one's own tools, or modifying existing ones to work, is a significant part of all craftsmen that I've known. There are always tons of "tricks" that people like you have figured out over the years of working in their trade. Sharing those with others as per this board is, frankly, extraordinary. Some of the problems that novices like me run into are the terms, definitions, vocabulary of the trade, e.g. Pratt-Reed, spanner... I didn't know the terms, but now know: what to look for, where to find them. Having someone who has been there and seen where, for example, what should normally be a metric thread, may in fact not be... These seemingly small things make a huge difference... I'm not going to become a professional in this field. I have one microscope, may buy another who knows, and am truly interested in using it to have fun, learn a lot, and help my kids learn as much as I can pass onto them... I wish to do this at a standard that is at as high a professional level as I can do. Not because I have my own ego to support, although there is a component there, but because by working to the highest standards possible, one learns a lot. When I studied blacksmithing many years ago, my teacher said to me, "Do each step perfectly and in the end, you'll have a pretty good end product." I still subscribe to that. Thank you for everything. I'll certainly keep you posted as to how this PMG progresses. dj |
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