Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Biology
BiologyBotanyMicrobiologyEntomologyEvolutionPaleontology
Chemistry
General ChemistryAnalytical ChemistryElectrochemistryOrganic Synthesis
Earth Science
GeologyMineralogyOceanographyMeteorologyEarthquakes
Physics
General PhysicsResearchRelativityParticle PhysicsElectromagnetismFusionOpticsAcousticsNew Theories

Natural Science Forum / Physics / Optics / July 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Caring for microscopes

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Ted - 27 Jun 2008 17:26 GMT
http://snipr.com/CaringMicroscopes
Kevin Cunningham - 28 Jun 2008 15:04 GMT
> http://snipr.com/CaringMicroscopes

Don't believe the section on cleaning, the gentleman just doesnt' know
what he's talking about.  Nice try, no cigar.

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
pennine56@yahoo.co.uk - 28 Jun 2008 18:20 GMT
> >http://snipr.com/CaringMicroscopes
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Kevin Cunningham
> SMS

Seems very sound to me as a humble hobbyist within the context of an
introductory guide, please enlighten us!
Thanks.
David
jmchone@nb.sympatico.ca - 29 Jun 2008 14:20 GMT
Mr. Cunningham, for the past 35 years I have been a research geologist
and faculty member; a major microscope user but not professionally
trained in servicing scopes. So I would appreciate your guidance on
why my cleaning advice is worthless and what should be done instead.
That would no doubt improve my own lab instrument maintenance as well
as my eBay guide, and perhaps be helpful to the google group as well.
Thanks from James G. McHone

On Jun 28, 2:20 pm, pennin...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> > >http://snipr.com/CaringMicroscopes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Thanks.
> David
Kevin Cunningham - 29 Jun 2008 18:10 GMT
On Jun 29, 9:20 am, jmch...@nb.sympatico.ca wrote:
> Mr. Cunningham, for the past 35 years I have been a research geologist
> and faculty member; a major microscope user but not professionally
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > Thanks.
> > David

Sir;

Your cleaning advice is close to dangerous.  The critical one is:

Always clean wet, not dry.
(repeat endlessly)

If is crucial to clean wet.  Your trying to float the dirt up and
either into the cleaning tissue, not trying to rub it in deeper.
Remember if you clean dry you will scratch either the glass or the
coating material.  By the way, coating material is mostly harder than
glass so you want as much coated glass as possible.  For a cleaning
solution use any high vapor pressure chemical, however most high vapor
pressure chemicals are rather deadly so I recommend alcohol, heptane
and water based cleaner like Windex or Sparkle.  Heptane is safe but
hard to get so mostly alcohol will have to do.  Make sure your work
area is well ventilated.

It is not crucial to capture the dirt in the cleaning tissue, if you
can push it to the edge that's good enough, usually.  You want the
glass area used by the instrument to be scrupulously clean though.

The cleaning material can be Kim-Wipes of a simple Tissue like
Kleenex. Don't purchase tissues that have lotions on them that protect
your nose, they just won't work.   I use Kim-Wipes since they are
readily available but when push comes to shove I've used Kleenex and
Publix brand tissues.  You may have to clean the surface off with
either canned air or an ear syringe (!) but both work well to get rid
of dust.  Tissues just add a bit more dust to the equation.

Dip the tissue into the water based cleaner then into some alcohol, I
use Menda bottles but they're expensive.  Start from the center and
wipe to the edges.  Throw the tissue away.  Repeat until clean.  Wipe
in the same pattern with a dry tissue to remove moisture.  If your
only using alcohol, depends what's on the lens, then you probably
won't have to wipe it dry, just shake the tissue about three times or
so and wipe from the center out.

Camera lens cleaners don't work for cameras, my wife used to own half
of a camera repair company, they just get the dirt mad at you.  The
green lens cleaner that just about ever one buys is worthless, its a
mixture of vinegar and water essentially.

If your cleaning objectives go to Wal-Mart or a good hardware store
and buy a cheap, small LED flashlight so you can illuminate the area
your cleaning either from the front or back.  That helps you visualize
the dirt.  Use a reversed eyepiece as a magnifier.  If you need a
longer reach to get to the back of an objective use a whole Kim-Wipe
and wrap it around a diamond holders tweezers (a long reach,
relatively soft tough tweezers) with a lot of Kim-Wipe hanging of the
front.

Be gentle but be firm.

Then there's lubricating, disassembly, etc.

I don't want to stop you or discourage you from writing about
microscopes but you might want to consult with your local technical
people.  I've been in the craft of microscopes since '78, it is not
the simplest field in the world.  They're is a lot to learn, from
cleaning to electronics to physics to mechanical engineering and I
don't know it all, I learn every day.

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
jmchone@nb.sympatico.ca - 29 Jun 2008 19:21 GMT
> Sir;
>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> Kevin Cunningham

Yes, it is always good to learn something new, and I appreciate your
advice. My camera lens cleaning solution is alcohol based and I
assumed they were all like that. It works well and leaves no residue
(and no stink). I was told back when I was a student myself that
Kleenex and any wood-based paper will contain silica particles and are
not suitable for lens cleaning. Kimwipes are widely used in labs
(including mine) but most folks will not have them at home. My eBay
guide already says you should first try to blow off loose dust or
dirt, never use a dry cloth on a lens, and to work from the center
outward, but I could emphasize that better. Students sitting in a
teaching lab and probably many users at home have no access to a
technician, and when teaching optical mineralogy I had to provide some
instruction on safely handling and setting up the instrument, before
launching into the methodology of rock and mineral analysis.
Persuading the chairman and dean to fund visits each semester from a
service technician for cleaning and adjusting was impossible (I
tried), so cleaning, adjusting, setups, and lamp replacement etc.
generally fall to the faculty member teaching the course. It is
certainly not a trivial task and not always self evident either. Only
a professional like you can provide true technical advice and service,
so I will stick to a few simple basics. Thanks from J. G. McHone
Kevin Cunningham - 30 Jun 2008 16:04 GMT
On Jun 29, 2:21 pm, jmch...@nb.sympatico.ca wrote:

> > Sir;
>
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
> a professional like you can provide true technical advice and service,
> so I will stick to a few simple basics. Thanks from J. G. McHone

(sigh) I should have gone on and on about the number of things you
have to clean off of microscopes, thats the real reason for using the
chemicals I recommended.  One type of crud requires one strength and
another crud requires another type.  There is no general use cleaner
because dirt is not general.  It's quite specific.  I use acetone as
well but that can dissolve plastic so you can be in real trouble if
you make a mistake.

Leica messen mechanics use alcohol, heptane and water based cleaner
only, they feel that it works in various
strengths and you can hurt the microscope with too much stuff.  Zeiss,
by the way, uses ether and benzine, some were there has to be more
dangerous chemicals!

Since you are a Geologist you probably don't have to sweat mounting
media as much as a pathologist or tech does, that stuff can be a real
pain in the rear.  And do emphasize the diamond holding tweezers, I
use mine for hours every day.  They're cheap but kinda hard to get,
try a jewelers supply store.

As for taking apart and fixing tools you should recommend both
phillips, pratt-reed and posidrive cross point screw drivers.  The set
you mentioned you had would be a good beginning if it has all of the
above.  Metric fine point straight bladed screw drives are a must and
your right, Wiha makes some good ones.  And of course a set of metric
Allen heads down to 1.5mm at least.  My set goes down to 0.9 and I use
it routinely.

And a good DVOM, there are more electrical problems than I care to
think about.

Thanks!

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
Richard J Kinch - 01 Jul 2008 05:31 GMT
> Zeiss,
> by the way, uses ether and benzine, some were there has to be more
> dangerous chemicals!

Ether (petroleum ether) (not to be confused with diethyl ether) and "benzin
(e)" (not to be confused with benzene) are just other names for the WalMart
product I suggested earlier.  Chemists have a very confused history of
nomenclature.
Kevin Cunningham - 01 Jul 2008 13:27 GMT
> > Zeiss,
> > by the way, uses ether and benzine, some were there has to be more
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> product I suggested earlier.  Chemists have a very confused history of
> nomenclature.

And it goes beyond that.  Benzene, if used in Germany, can be
heptane.  The ether I was referring to is anesthesia grade, very pure,
very explosive.  Oh, fun fact, this ether may generate a precipitate
that is explosive!

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
Richard J Kinch - 01 Jul 2008 22:23 GMT
> Benzene, if used in Germany, can be heptane.

No.  Benzene is the aromatic hydrocarbon C6H6, never heptane or other
paraffin.  Benzene is not benzin or benzine.

There is confusion of terminology, and then there is confusion from not
knowing organic chemistry.
Kevin Cunningham - 02 Jul 2008 13:37 GMT
> > Benzene, if used in Germany, can be heptane.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> There is confusion of terminology, and then there is confusion from not
> knowing organic chemistry.

Richard,

Heard this from a buddy who had just been to Germany.  What mechanics
and messen mechanics call "benzene" is really heptane.  First of all
they're translating between German and English, secondly this is only
one plant.  I'm sure that it might be called heptane in other plants.
Now my buddy has used heptane since he was 19, he's in his 40's now.
He can pick it out.  Oh, he was over there with a good friend, another
messen mechanic, he says it heptane like one of the local vendors
sells, local being in Atlanta.  And he's in his late 40's.

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
David Littlewood - 02 Jul 2008 18:14 GMT
In article
<dab2cc34-7dc9-4ca2-972d-ac52a9c35f27@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Kevin
Cunningham <smskjc@mindspring.com> writes
>> > Benzene, if used in Germany, can be heptane.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>Kevin Cunningham
>SMS

Kevin (and others): This confusion arises because the Germans use the
word "benzin" for motor gasoline (petrol in the UK) and also for various
aliphatic hydrocarbons found in it, such as heptane, C7H16.

They use the word "benzol" for the aromatic hydrocarbon benzene, C6H6.

David
Signature

David Littlewood

Y - 16 Jul 2008 17:59 GMT
> > > Benzene, if used in Germany, can be heptane.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Kevin Cunningham
> SMS

Benzene is called benzol in German... No confusion possible there.
Richard J Kinch - 17 Jul 2008 09:50 GMT
> Benzene is called benzol in German... No confusion possible there.

Right.  The confusion is over here, not there.
Richard J Kinch - 30 Jun 2008 05:24 GMT
> Heptane is safe but hard to get ...

Light naphthenic petroleum distillate is sold by the gallon in a "Coleman
Fuel" disguise at WalMart.  You can count on about 2X the going gasoline
price.
Edward  Hennessey - 30 Jun 2008 18:55 GMT
>> Heptane is safe but hard to get ...
>
> Light naphthenic petroleum distillate is sold by the gallon in a
> "Coleman Fuel" disguise at WalMart.  You can count on about 2X the
> going gasoline price.

Though corrections on its applicability are welcome, I use naptha by the
gallon
which is available at any paint store.

On another point, wet sanding is about 30% more effective than dry sanding.
And that is what always bothers me about rubbing anything wet, not that
Kevin
doesn't do it, not that I don't. Sometimes kinetic effort is required to
dislodge
coatings and aggregations. But the idea of rubbing something "in" against
vulnerable
components is not one I cherish.

There is a device I have used on other things called a Cavitron which uses
localized
ultrasonic action to dislodge material. Although it would certainly be
slower than
wet and swab, has anyone tried it in certain optic cases? Also, what about
deionizing
as a preliminary step in the cleaning process?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
Kevin Cunningham - 30 Jun 2008 22:11 GMT
On Jun 30, 1:55 pm, "Edward  Hennessey"
<halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> Heptane is safe but hard to get ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Edward Hennessey

I've tried Cavitron machines and it just doesn't do very much when you
in the field.  I've tried various chemicals at various times and found
that deionizing just doesn't work.  By and large the chemicals
discussed work and are safe.  High vapor pressure chemicals work in
general but can cause all kinds of health problems like toluene.  Of
course there is always something I haven't tried and there is always
the new so any ideas welcomed!

I'm not as worried about the sand paper example, we rarely have silica
to worry about.  Usually I'm dissolving things like various greases,
including human greases.  The named chemicals tend to work
effectively.

Thanks,

Kevin Cunningham
SMS
jmchone@nb.sympatico.ca - 01 Jul 2008 14:27 GMT
On Jul 1, 9:27 am, Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:31 am, Richard J Kinch <ki...@truetex.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Kevin Cunningham
> SMS

OK, I have amended my little eBay guide according to some of your
suggestions (emphasizing wet lens cleaning, which I had already
advised). This is intended to be a brief introduction for a student
and or beginner, perhaps someone sitting in the kitchen or shop with
family members around. For them, I am not comfortable recommending the
more volatile and toxic chemicals that I use myself and are sometimes
necessary. For any serious problems it is better for a neophyte owner
to contact the nearest microscope service provider, at least until she/
he gains experience. But when your budget is small and you live on a
small island out in the ocean, as in my case, being self-sufficient is
important, so a serious user will seek a lot more education than my
little guide can provide. Of course, that's why this Google site is so
helpful. Thanks, J.G. McHone
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.