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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Optics / September 2004



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Automated counting of cells without interfering with their biology??

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Jason Bush - 22 Sep 2004 19:51 GMT
I need to count live cells in a microplate with an inverted
microscope.  I know that DAPI, Hoechst and a host of other dyes and
stains can be utilized.  however, I need to find a dye that is not
toxic, won't interfere with the biology of the cells, and won't
interact with the compounds that I will be treating the cells with.

I am interested in finding ways to count the cells using visible
imaging (I have found problems with discerning junk/debris from the
cells) and fluorescent imaging (concerns about dye-cell interactions
and dye-compound interactions).

Solutions that I have thought of
 1.  Use a transient fluorescent dye which degrades faster than it
could interfere with compounds or cells (The time scale of the
compounds' activity is fairly long (hours to days), so a photo
unstable dye might work).

 2.  Complex algorithm for selectively counting cells and not debris.

 3.  Find a relatively inert dye which won't interfere with either
the cells or the compounds (this can be done, but will involve a large
amount of testing to ensure lack of interference).

Does anyone have any advice, suggestions, experience in this?  I
imagine that their will be tradeoffs in any choice, but I am having a
hard time selecting an approach or a dye.

Thanks,

Jason
David Littlewood - 22 Sep 2004 21:43 GMT
>I need to count live cells in a microplate with an inverted
>microscope.  I know that DAPI, Hoechst and a host of other dyes and
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>Jason

Have you tried Rheinberg? It may not help distinguish between cells and
junk, but it may solve the other problems.

David
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David Littlewood

Aaron - 23 Sep 2004 22:39 GMT
>Have you tried Rheinberg? It may not help distinguish between cells and
>junk, but it may solve the other problems.
>
>David

Hi David,

How does one setup Rheinberg illumination for an inverted microscope?

Aaron
David Littlewood - 24 Sep 2004 13:10 GMT
>>Have you tried Rheinberg? It may not help distinguish between cells and
>>junk, but it may solve the other problems.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Aaron

Hi Aaron,

Hm, good point, I missed the bit about the inverted microscope. I have a
Zeiss met scope here which I have not yet brought into commission, and I
see it has built-in epi-illumination but with no obvious way to access a
filter slot. I presume there is a condenser in there somewhere!

Maybe it would be possible to use transmitted illumination with a
condenser above the specimen, with the condenser immersed??? Actually,
if a "microplate" is what I imagine it to be, something like a thin
sealed chamber,  then just a conventional overhead illuminator/condenser
should have some means of inserting a Rheinberg filter. Worth
experimenting, anyway.

David
Signature

David Littlewood

Aaron - 24 Sep 2004 03:59 GMT
Hello Jason,

I have no direct experience with your  issues, however I did come
across an article in "Microscopy Today" ( May 2004;  Vol 12;  number
5; Page 18)  which deals with similar issues.  The article deals with
counting different bacteria in a fluid extracted from a cow's rumen.
The method of visualization is Phase Contrast and the software used is
able to differentiat and count the bacteria.    

I do not know whether you are familiar with this work.  If you are not
aware of it, I hope it is of use to you..

Aaron

>I need to count live cells in a microplate with an inverted
>microscope.  I know that DAPI, Hoechst and a host of other dyes and
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>Jason
Jason Bush - 29 Sep 2004 15:18 GMT
David, Aaron,

Thank you both for the advice and references.  We will be pursuing
both alternatives (imaging analysis and optimal selection of
microscopy technique).  I appreciate your comments, and if you have
any more, please send them along.

Best regards,

Jason

> Hello Jason,
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> >
> >Jason
 
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