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Natural Science Forum / Physics / New Theories / April 2004



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Gravity Probe B

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Larry Adams - 17 Apr 2004 03:23 GMT
Paraphrasing the Associated Press (April 13, 2004):

Next week, if all goes well, NASA will launch a rocket
that will measure how space-time is warped and dragged
along by the gravity of the spinning Earth--one of the
stranger implications of Einstein's general theory  of
relativity.

End Paraphrase.

I used to be opposed to the notion of the curvature
of space, time, or space-time. Now I realize that this
refers exclusively to space-time.

The effect to be measured is small. The experient uses
near-perfect spherical gyroscopes that, after one year
will point 1/100,000th of a degree from their initial
direction.

A much larger warping of space-time by a rotating mass
could be accomplished by ferromagnetic resonance. Instead
of simple rotation, the precession of electrons in a
voluminous iron mass mass would be employed.

Precession is the rotation of the axis about which a
body spins. A top spins; under gravity, it also precesses.
The angle between the vertical and the top is called
the precession angle.

Given a constant precession, a constant centripetal
force acts on the mass of the top. The top has a
tangential velocity in its precession about the vertical.

According to Feynman's Lectures on Physics (v1 ch19 p9) a
centripetal force is equivalent to a corioli force when the
velocity is tangential and the force is radial. Einstein
observed that the corioli force is a type of gravitational
force.

In ferromagnetic resonance, the superposition of electronic
magnetic moments is also a superpostion of electronic
angular momenta. The net angular momentum is:

J = -MV / y

where M is the saturation magnetization of iron, 1.70x10^6
A/m, V is the volume of the iron (8.66x10^3 m^3) and (y) is the
magnetogyric ratio or 1.76x10^11 C / Kg.

The precession (or resonance) frequency is:

Wp = y Bo  radians/s

Bo = Bf - delta_B  (field is not static)

Bf is the saturation induction, or 2.13 Tesla, and delta_B
is 1.13 Tesla. Therefore, Bo is 1 Tesla and Wp is 1.76x10^11
radians/s.

A funnel can be thought of as layers of circles of differing
radii. The precession of the angular momentum vector describes
a funnel. The vertex of the funnel has a radius of:

r = (J / (m Wp))^1/2

where (m) is the mass of the iron equal to the volume times
the density of iron (7.86x10^3 Kg/m^3) or 6.80x10^7 Kg.
Therefore, r is 8.36x10^-11 meters.

The expression for centripetal force is:

F(r) = m v^2 / r        or,

F(r) = m (Wp)^2  r

F(r) = (6.8x10^7) (1.76x10^11)^2 (8.36x10^-11)

F(r) = 1.76x10^20 N

For a precession angle of zero there are no torques acting
on the iron mass (the torque being proportional to sin(zero)).
This means that the iron mass will not rotate. This is similiar
to the non-rotation of the Trouton-Noble capacitor. (See
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0305-4470/32/20/308).

The precession angle would probably be small and not zero. If
sin(angle)is small enough, then the resulting torque would
be insufficient to rotate the iron mass.

Torque(Wp) = J Wp sin angle

For a voluminous iron mass the vortex of the precession funnel
will have a radius greater than one meter. The centripetal
(radial corioli) force for a radius of one meter is:

F(r) = (6.8x10^7) (1.76x10^11)^2 (1)

F(r) = 2.10x10^30 N

Apparently, either a Kerr black hole has formed with its traversable
ring singularity or a magnetic wormhole has appeared. Notably, the
volume of the iron mass compares with that of a ship like the DE-173
in the Philadelphia Experiment.

Since the energy of the system changes with a jump at resonance, the
Kerr black hole or magnetic wormhole exists only briefly.  ###
Uncle Al - 17 Apr 2004 16:44 GMT
> Paraphrasing the Associated Press (April 13, 2004):
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> stranger implications of Einstein's general theory  of
> relativity.

[snip]

> A much larger warping of space-time by a rotating mass
> could be accomplished by ferromagnetic resonance. Instead
> of simple rotation, the precession of electrons in a
> voluminous iron mass mass would be employed.

EM and gravitation do not unite.  Vector bosons are irremediably
distinct from tensor bosons, even if you are wearing Kaluza-Klein
jeans.  Hey stooopid:

F = qQ/r^2
F = GmM/r^2
G = 6.674x10^(-11) m^3/kg-s^2

You won't see gravitational effects unless you null EM effects to one
part in 100 billion.  It takes the whole planet to give a microgram
oil droplet its weight, yet one excess electron will loft it against
gravity nice as you (OK, not you, Millikin) please.

> According to Feynman's Lectures on Physics (v1 ch19 p9) a
> centripetal force is equivalent to a corioli force when the
> velocity is tangential and the force is radial. Einstein
> observed that the corioli force is a type of gravitational
> force.

f.cking-A WRONG.  Look up the German for "It's only transverse Doppler
shift!"  Having a Beckman-Coulter Optima MAX ultracentrifuge the size
of a bread basket gives you access to over 1 million gees.  General
relativistic effects at the rim are ZERO.  The experiment has been
done using the Mossbauer effect as the clock.

[snip]

> For a voluminous iron mass the vortex of the precession funnel
> will have a radius greater than one meter. The centripetal
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Since the energy of the system changes with a jump at resonance, the
> Kerr black hole or magnetic wormhole exists only briefly.  ###

Spewing idiot.  At least learn how to sell "Coriolus."  One mark of an
idiot is that the idiot cannot spell words from literature he claims
to understand (better than anybody/everbody else).

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!

Bob Sullivan - 18 Apr 2004 00:07 GMT
> > Paraphrasing the Associated Press (April 13, 2004):
> >
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> idiot is that the idiot cannot spell words from literature he claims
> to understand (better than anybody/everbody else).

Hmmm..... Another self-referential post by Uncle Al.  You pooped all
over yourself -- AGAIN.

Spewing idiot.  At least learn how to spell "Millikan," "Coriolis,"
"spell," and "everybody."  One mark of an idiot is that the idiot cannot
spell words from literature he claims to understand (better than
anybody/everybody else).

Pathetic. Richard Schultz was right.

But don't despair, Uncle Al.  Jesus loves you.  I know it's almost
beyond comprehension.  None of the rest of us do, but He does.  Let
Jesus cleanse the hatred poisoning your heart.

BTW here's the obligatory link.  Enjoy!

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/e/jesuslme.htm

Give your heart to Jesus and have a perfectly spiritual day! :-)
Uncle Al - 18 Apr 2004 03:07 GMT
[snip]

> > Spewing idiot.  At least learn how to sell "Coriolus."  One mark of an
> > idiot is that the idiot cannot spell words from literature he claims
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> spell words from literature he claims to understand (better than
> anybody/everybody else).
[snip]

Uncle Al abandons satire.  The woodwork is dripping idiots.

Hey stooopid, google "coriolus."

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!

Bob Sullivan - 18 Apr 2004 06:22 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Hey stooopid, google "coriolus."

Ah yes, coriolus (Coriolus Versacolor) is a medicinal mushroom commonly
called turkey tail.  What's your point, Al?

It seems that Uncle Al was talking about mushrooms when everyone else
was talking about the Coriolis force named after Gaspard G. Coriolis.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=coriolis

So, given a chance to admit his mistake, Uncle Al stands up and shouts,
"ME, ME, ME, I AM AN IDIOT," giving me the opportunity to say again:

Spewing idiot.  At least learn how to spell "Coriolis."  One mark of an
idiot is that the idiot cannot spell words from literature he claims to
understand (better than anybody/everybody else).

Al, I am truly sorry that you are an idiot, but remember, Jesus loves
you even if you are an idiot.  As matter of fact, the "teched" have a
special place in His heart.

Score another one for Richard Schultz.
Michael Varney - 19 Apr 2004 12:37 GMT
> > [snip]
> >
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Score another one for Richard Schultz.

A bit too subtle for you, huh?
Uncle Al - 19 Apr 2004 16:38 GMT
> > > [snip]
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> A bit too subtle for you, huh?

Maybe I should hit the keyboard at random like Herbert Glazier.  Would
that be insufficiently subtle?

"The Hermeneutics of Mushrooms and Angular Velocity."

We're running tellurium through the cluster.  This morning we finished
0.200 mm radius and 123 Quads at 10,000 A radius increments.  CHIPIR
now shifts gears (day delay) and goes for the Big Kahuna at 50,000 A
radius increments - ~90 Quads added each step.  Still no 9-day notice
of termination!  Berlinite goes through next.

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!

Gregory L. Hansen - 18 Apr 2004 13:31 GMT
>[snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Hey stooopid, google "coriolus."

Google "Feynmann".

Some people use Google as their spell checker.

Coriolus: 13,800 hits
Coriolis: 254,000 hits

Signature

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it. "
 -- Gene Spafford, 1992

Josh Halpern - 19 Apr 2004 01:45 GMT
SNIP.....

>>Uncle Al abandons satire.  The woodwork is dripping idiots.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Coriolus: 13,800 hits
>Coriolis: 254,000 hits

I love this.  Spell check by majority vote of 254K processors.

josh halpern
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) - 19 Apr 2004 02:49 GMT
Dear Josh Halpern:

> SNIP.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> I love this.  Spell check by majority vote of 254K processors.

How do you think the dictonary publishers decide what to put in, and what
to take out?  It is based on common usage... this was a little extreme, but
the basic idea is not too far from what actually happens.

David A. Smith
Josh Halpern - 19 Apr 2004 04:43 GMT
>Dear Josh Halpern:
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>to take out?  It is based on common usage... this was a little extreme, but
>the basic idea is not too far from what actually happens.

I was thinking more about how "voting" in multiprocessor systems is used
to protect against  defects
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~jfc/cs174lecs/lec16/lec16.html

josh halpern
Franz Heymann - 24 Apr 2004 09:22 GMT
[snip]

> >Uncle Al abandons satire.  The woodwork is dripping idiots.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Coriolus: 13,800 hits

Mostly articles about fungi, with a very tiny sprinkling of articles
by folks unable to spell the name of Mr. Coriolis correctly.

> Coriolis: 254,000 hits

All about the man of the force or the force itself.

Franz
Ed Keane III - 18 Apr 2004 14:53 GMT
> Uncle Al abandons satire.

Please don't. The sell thing was a goody.
Franz Heymann - 24 Apr 2004 09:22 GMT
[snip]

> Uncle Al abandons satire.  The woodwork is dripping idiots.
>
> Hey stooopid, google "coriolus."

Hey, Uncle Al, google "Coriolis" and you'll get many references to a
physical force and none to mushrooms.

Franz
Helmut Wabnig - 18 Apr 2004 20:52 GMT
>...........
>Give your heart to Jesus and have a perfectly spiritual day! :-)

What would HE do with my heart?
Eat it?
In revenge for us eating HIM, pressed flat into wafer form,
and drinking HIS blood as wine.
(I prefer wine as wine, not as divine blood.)
(BTW, I no longer attend church sacraments)

Christianity is another word for Cannibalism.

w.
Signature

Thanks God that I am an Atheist.
 Gottseidank bin ich Atheist.

Dave Thomson - 18 Apr 2004 00:50 GMT
> Spewing idiot.  At least learn how to sell "Coriolus."  One mark of an
> idiot is that the idiot cannot spell words from literature he claims
> to understand (better than anybody/everbody else).

Well said, Al!  That'll be a classic.

Dave
Dave Thomson - 18 Apr 2004 01:22 GMT
Hi Larry,

> In ferromagnetic resonance, the superposition of electronic
> magnetic moments is also a superpostion of electronic
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> A/m, V is the volume of the iron (8.66x10^3 m^3) and (y) is the
> magnetogyric ratio or 1.76x10^11 C / Kg.

Where did you get the value for magnetogyric ratio = 1.76x10^11 C / Kg?
That seems high for the ratio of charge to mass.

> For a voluminous iron mass the vortex of the precession funnel
> will have a radius greater than one meter. The centripetal
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> volume of the iron mass compares with that of a ship like the DE-173
> in the Philadelphia Experiment.

Why are these the only two choices (assuming the calculations reflect
reality)?

Dave
Larry Adams - 19 Apr 2004 17:16 GMT
Reviewing:

Paraphrasing the Associated Press (April 13, 2004):

Next week, if all goes well, NASA will launch a rocket
that will measure how space-time is warped and dragged
along by the gravity of the spinning Earth--one of the
stranger implications of Einstein's general theory  of
relativity.

End Paraphrase.

The effect to be measured is small. The experient uses
near-perfect spherical gyroscopes that, after one year
will point 1/100,000th of a degree from their initial
direction.

A much larger warping of space-time by a rotating mass
could be accomplished by ferromagnetic resonance. Instead
of simple rotation, the precession of electrons in a
voluminous iron mass mass would be employed.

> Hi Larry,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Where did you get the value for magnetogyric ratio = 1.76x10^11 C / Kg?
> That seems high for the ratio of charge to mass.

The magnetomechanical (magnetogyric) ratio is given in the McGraw-Hill
Encyclopedia of Science and Technology (1987):

y = e/m

y = 1.60x10^-19 C / 9.11x10^-31 Kg    (MKS units)

y = 1.76x10^11 C / Kg

> > For a voluminous iron mass the vortex of the precession funnel
> > will have a radius greater than one meter. The centripetal
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Why are these the only two choices (assuming the calculations reflect
> reality)?

The angular momentum vector describes one funnel. The magnetization
vector describes another. The funnels are joined together like the two
halves of an hourglass.

A Kerr black hole is partly characterized by its angular momentum. A
magnetic wormhole is partly characterized by its magnetism.

Black holes and wormholes typically require a lot of mass. But the
centripetal (radial Coriolis) force depends on both mass and the
square of the tangential velocity.

Consider this analogy. A small mass rotating rapidly is comparable to
a large mass rotating less rapidly. The rotation here is actually
precession.

The physical laws governing ferromagnetic resonance are scale
independent. They apply to any volume of iron. The classical
and quantum theories agree to a first approximation.   ###
Uncle Al - 19 Apr 2004 18:47 GMT
> Reviewing:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> of simple rotation, the precession of electrons in a
> voluminous iron mass mass would be employed.
[snip]

No, you ineducable f.cking imbecile.  Vector bosons do not unite with
tensor bosons, even if you are wearing Kaluza-Klein jeans.  How many
more times will you blow it out your a.s in public?

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!

 
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