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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Optics / February 2005Question from a optics illiterate.
I picked up a CCD camera years ago as part of a lot that I bid on. It was owned by the National Research Council of Canada. It has no optics but camera is functional as a microscope with a lens placed just ahead of the CCD chip. The lens mounting thread is about 26 MM with an exceptionally fine thread ( maybe 40 TPI) The body is marked with the GE Logo and the name CIDTEC and I think the mod number is CID1710. (I looked on the CIDTEC site but could not find any info on the 1710. In any case if I could, I would like to see if I could get it working as a surveillance camera for my shop and or our entrance. I was considering hauling the optics out of one of the old unused 35 mm cameras or binoculars if you thought those optics might be compatible. Failing that I would consider looking for something on Ebay if I knew what to look for. Any and all comments would be most appreciated. Thanks Bill [snip....] > In any case if I could, I would like to see if I could get it working as > a surveillance camera for my shop and or our entrance. It might not be worse the trouble. One can buy wireless 2.4 Ghz cameras very cheap. For instance, this site offers 3 wireless cameras for $109.00 http://www.x10.com/onsale/index.html > [snip....] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.x10.com/onsale/index.html Thanks Jr ..... That's quite a sale. Actually I am more interested in tinkering then in just buying one, but I do thank you for the great steer. Bill > > [snip....] > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tinkering then in just buying one, but I do thank you for the great > steer. As others have noted, this is probably a C-mount lens. You should be able to find them inexpensively on eBay. As also noted, 35 mm lens adapters are available but keep in mind that the field of view for the image sensor will be a small fraction of the field of view for the 35 mm lens, so a "normal" 35 mm lens turns into a long telephoto on your camera. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive traffic on Repairfaq.org. Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. "Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message > > As others have noted, this is probably a C-mount lens. You should be > able [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > will be a small fraction of the field of view for the 35 mm lens, so a > "normal" 35 mm lens turns into a long telephoto on your camera. Thanks Sam The sensor is ~8 mm wide and ~6 mm tall and the measured minor diameter of the mount was 0.967" which is bang on for a 1-32 thread. Thanks for the info! Bill > --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: > http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/ [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > can > contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. > I picked up a CCD camera years ago as part of a lot that I bid on. It > was owned by the National Research Council of Canada. It has no optics [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks Bill Could it be a 3710? That's a Cidtec model. Could the thread be 1"-32? That's C-mount. You can get C-mount adapters to a lot of 35mm mounts, certainly Nikon. And technically, it's not a CCD camera but a CID camera. If it's a 1710, though, it will hook up to a standard video monitor. >> I picked up a CCD camera years ago as part of a lot that I bid on. It >> was owned by the National Research Council of Canada. It has no [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > 1710, > though, it will hook up to a standard video monitor. Thanks Leonard! It positively is a 1710 as it is clearly marked with no mistake. You are probably right on the size. I did not bother use my digital callipers because all I could get was the ID of the thread so I estimated where the root of the thread was and measured with a kids drafting scale. The thread was just guessed.(BUT I just now rubbed a piece of paper back and forth around the thread and measured the impression and I got 8 lines to a 1/4 " so it is a 32 TPI thread.) The camera does work to my new Sony Wega via the yellow RCA video jack on the front. I spotted this lens and a few others in Ebay with a search using "lens and C mount" . Is this the type lens that I need or can you suggest something better. ( a little fun) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=297&item=3876674817&rd=1& ssPageName=WDVW or http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21165&item=3875757697&rd= 1&ssPageName=WDVW Thanks much!!!! Bill > >> I picked up a CCD camera years ago as part of a lot that I bid on. It > >> was owned by the National Research Council of Canada. It has no [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Thanks much!!!! > Bill As others have noted, there are a lot of C-mount lenses and many of them are inexpensive. Any of them should work. The only issue is that your camera may have a "CS" mount which is the same thread only closer to the sensor. CS mounts tend to be found on very small (like 1" cube) cameras. If your camera is bigger, like 4"X2"X2", it almost certainly has a regular C-mount. C-mount lenses will fit a CS mount camera but they won't focus without a spacer. "Leonard Migliore" <ora@laserk.com> wrote in message news:ora-> > As others have noted, there are a lot of C-mount lenses and many of > them [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > regular C-mount. C-mount lenses will fit a CS mount camera but they > won't focus without a spacer. Thanks again Leonard! This camera is about 3"X3"X5". (Not small) There is a Normal, X2, and X4 switch (presumably an electronic magnification) and a "Focus cable connector" and a 25 pin ?? computer connector. I assume that the focus connection physically moves the CID chip for and aft. I cannot imagine how else it could work. OK, I am sure it must be just a C-mount then. Thanks Bill On the better cameras, there is an adjustment to allow for the minor differences between lenses to be compensated for. It will move the sensor a little ways in/out. Unless you find that the lens that you get doesn't focus quite right (you can focus past infinity or never get quite there) then you may adjust this control. CS mounts are a fairly new version of the C mount and I'd suspect that you don't have them. If, by chance, you do actually have a CS mount, there is an adapter ring that very nicely adapts between the two focal points. I'll note that a 25mm lens is pretty much the "standard" focal length, kind of like 50mm for 35mm cameras. -- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole? > On the better cameras, there is an adjustment to allow for the minor > differences between lenses to be compensated for. It will move the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole? Thanks Bob!!! Hello Bill, When choosing a lens, also keep in mind the sensor size. Try to get a lens made for the same size. If the lens is made for larger sensors than the one you have, it will still work but: 1. you are probably spending more than you need on the lens, and 2. it is acting like a larger telephoto lens as Sam said. If the lens is made for a smaller sensor, then the image will be clipped and you definately don't want that. Typical sensor sizes are 1/3", 1/2", and 2/3". But nothing on the sensor actually matches that size! If you measure the sensor diagonal, you can determine the size: Diagonal Size 6 mm 1/3" 8 mm 1/2" 11 mm 2/3" A more complete chart covering many sizes is at: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0210/02100402sensorsizes.asp Mark > Hello Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mark Hi Mark OK I get the gist of what you mean. I re measured my sensor and it's near as damit to 9 mm by 7 mm which gives me about an 11 mm diagonal so I should be looking for a 2/3" which translates to a 16.933 mm diameter. And from the chart I find these two examples of lenses that would be a match: Camera Sensor Type Pixel count Sensor size Sony DSC-F717 2/3" CCD 5.2 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm Minolta DiMAGE 7Hi 2/3" CCD 5.2 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm Ok Mark I think I am beginning to understand what it is that I need. Tks Bill In article <NMHTd.50175$Am3.1559703@news20.bellglobal.com>, > OK I get the gist of what you mean. I re measured my sensor and it's > near as damit to 9 mm by 7 mm which gives me about an 11 mm diagonal so [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > mm > Minolta DiMAGE 7Hi 2/3" CCD 5.2 million 8.8 x 6.6 mm No, those are whole cameras which happen to have 2/3" sensors and you can't easily take the lenses out of them. An example of loose lenses that you can put on your camera is here: http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=12 75 Again, the world is rife with C-mount lenses and they are available at low cost from many sources. You just have to decide what field of view you need and then pick an appropriate focal length. For a 2.3" sensor, a 12mm focal length will give you a horizontal field angle around 40 degrees, which is considered a "normal" perspective. Shorter or longer focal lengths will alter the field angle for wide angle or telephoto use. > In article <NMHTd.50175$Am3.1559703@news20.bellglobal.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > focal lengths will alter the field angle for wide angle or telephoto > use. Thanks Leonard This is the what I needed. I think now that I should be able to judge if a given Ebay lens will suit my camera or not. Cheers Bill Your camera uses either C or CS mount lenses. The difference between the two is the backfocal length; a Cmount lens has 17.5mm back focus, while CS is 12.5mm. The distance is measured from the face of the mounting flange to the imaging plane of the CCD One good place to buy lenses for it would be www.supercircuits.com . You should be able to pick something up for about $20 > I picked up a CCD camera years ago as part of a lot that I bid on. It > was owned by the National Research Council of Canada. It has no optics [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks Bill > Your camera uses either C or CS mount lenses. The difference between > the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You > should be able to pick something up for about $20 Thanks Michael I measured the distance and got 16.1 mm between the face of the mount and the face of the protective glass so that means it is a C-mount. (You live and learn!) Will take a look at the site you provided!! Thanks Bill |
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