Looking for books dealing with Permian period fauna and earlier periods
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nx1972@hotmail.com - 27 Mar 2008 12:33 GMT After watching the BBC's excellent "Walking with Monsters" series, I developed an interest in several types of fauna pre-existing the dinosaurs. These were the arthropods such as Arthropleura, Anomalocaris, Brontoscorpio, Pterygotus(and other Eurypterids). Then vertabrates like Dimetrodon, Diictodon, and Synapsids such as the genera Gorgonopsida and other Therapsids.
What i'd like to know is are there any books in print which deal with these animals in the same loving attention to detail as given to the Dinosaurs? I know there're acodemic papers that've been published on the above mentioned fauna but they're not necassarily available to ther public at large.
Andy - 27 Mar 2008 14:49 GMT Well, even though it is primarily about the end-Permian extinction, <i>Gorgon</i> by Peter Ward does describe quite an array of Permian fauna found in South Africa. It's a really well-written book as well.
nx1972@hotmail.com - 28 Mar 2008 00:13 GMT > Well, even though it is primarily about the end-Permian extinction, > <i>Gorgon</i> by Peter Ward does describe quite an array of Permian > fauna found in South Africa. It's a really well-written book as well. Aside from the Gorgonopsids does the book discuss in any detail the cynodonts in which current fossil evidence shows to be the group of synapsids from which mammals descended.
Actually now that I think about it what's the current state of knowledge(including both fossil evidence and the most upto date and excepted theory about cynodonts) in regards to Cynodonts and the mammaliforms from which the first mammals arose? How good is the relevant information over at the Wikipedia website?
Andy - 28 Mar 2008 02:00 GMT On Mar 27, 7:13 pm, nx1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Well, even though it is primarily about the end-Permian extinction, > > <i>Gorgon</i> by Peter Ward does describe quite an array of Permian [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > mammaliforms from which the first mammals arose? How good is the > relevant information over at the Wikipedia website? The book "Gorgon" isn't necessarily about any one particular animal. It's more of a description of the field experience Ward had while looking for information on the end-Permian extinction. In that sense, he does describe several creatures (Gorgons, cynodonts, dicynodonts, and other Permian fauna) that they discovered in the Karoo desert of South Africa. It really is a great easy read as Ward is a wonderful writer. In addition to his description of field experiences, he also adds his interpretation and thoughts about what was found.
As for the second question, my "expertise" (as it were) does not delve into the Permian much. My main area of interest lies chiefly with the ceratopsian dinosaurs as well as trilobites. But that doesn't stop me from reading about pretty much anything paleontological. The more you read, the more you'll find that there are a lot of opinions about any one thing. But that's pretty normal.
Andy
Andy - 27 Mar 2008 14:53 GMT As far as pre-Permian arthropods go, <i>Wonderful Life</i> by Stephen Gould is a great text as arthropods figured predominate in the Burgess Shale. Also, <i>Trilobite: Eyewitness to Evolution</i> by Richard Fortey is a wonderful description of trilobites.
Edward Hennessey - 27 Mar 2008 17:37 GMT > After watching the BBC's excellent "Walking with Monsters" series, I > developed an interest in several types of fauna pre-existing the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the above mentioned fauna but they're not necassarily available to > ther public at large. Look at "The Great Dying". As far as the accessibility of professional monographs on this material, they're as close as interlibrary loan or a larger university.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
nx1972@hotmail.com - 28 Mar 2008 00:07 GMT > Look at "The Great Dying". As far as the accessibility of professional > monographs [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Edward Hennessey Could you be a bit more specific in the title please and what's the authors name please. As I found over at amazon.com there are a number of books with that name in there title(including one which appears to be a book by a creationist trying prove that bull sh.t known as "Intelligent design").
Edward Hennessey - 29 Mar 2008 02:04 GMT >> Look at "The Great Dying". As far as the accessibility of professional >> monographs [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > be a book by a creationist trying prove that bull sh.t known as > "Intelligent design"). NX:
Frankly, my rested recollection has better fallen on this volume http://www.summize.com/product/when-life-nearly-died--the-greatest-mass-extincti on-of-all-time/paperback/050028573x which you can find at Amazon for a little more than $14. You might also want to look at the copious citations that can be found by perusing these search results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22permian+extinction%22+bibliography&btnG= Search
If you are in America and can plan a safari, you might want to take a look at the Permian material available in the west central states.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
Andy - 29 Mar 2008 02:40 GMT On Mar 28, 9:04 pm, "Edward Hennessey" <halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <nx1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I agree. "When Life Nearly Died" is an excellent book. I suppose I was on a end-Permian extinction kick because I read this book around the same time I read "Gorgon." Both are highly recommended.
Andy
John Harshman - 29 Mar 2008 18:36 GMT > After watching the BBC's excellent "Walking with Monsters" series, I > developed an interest in several types of fauna pre-existing the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the above mentioned fauna but they're not necassarily available to > ther public at large. Not a book, but try this:
http://www.palaeos.com/
rms - 04 Apr 2008 16:08 GMT Here's one book on the Permian extinction itself: _Extinction: How Life on Earth nearly ended 250 million years ago_, Douglas H. Erwin
Someone else mentioned _Gorgon_, Peter Ward. As I recall this book takes issue with the theories of a famous lady researcher out of California (sorry for the vagueness. If someone can summarize his argument, mostly contained in the last couple chapters of the book, I'd appreciate it. It had to do with the O2 levels at the time, that they dropped dramatically at the Permian transition. If someone could go over or give links why Triassic rocks are red worldwide and Jurassic generally yellow I'd appreciate that too).
Anyway, in regards to this lady researcher, a recent Discovery Channel special called The Day the Earth Nearly Died http://shopping.discovery.com/product-38903.html?jzid=40588004-59-0 covered her (and other's) recent theories about how a large asteroid hit on one side of the earth caused the creation of the Siberian Traps lava fields on the other side, causing global warming, this allowing lethal hydrogen-sulfide-producing organisms in the seas to multiply, wiping out most sealife.
By the way, early in this same show a diamond mine in Canada was discussed, and how these diamonds were almost certainly created by a large asteroid impact, I believe well before the Permian. This is interesting because I distinctly recall these diamonds being mentioned in one of the John McPhee _Annals of the Former World_ books: how they were created by a fluke internal event, a super-heated shaft directly from the mantle to the surface (there was a technical term for it). A wild, what-the-hell-I-have-no-idea theory probably from before large asteroid impacts were taken seriously.
Also, you mentioned the ancestors of mammals. There is a book called _After the Dinosaurs: the age of mammals_, Prothero
rms
Aidan Karley - 05 Apr 2008 15:43 GMT > By the way, early in this same show a diamond mine in Canada was discussed, > and how these diamonds were almost certainly created by a large asteroid > impact, I believe well before the Permian. I'm not particularly worried one way or the other about Ward's oxygen vs other people's H2S hypotheses, but I'd be surprised by the assertion of an asteroid impact causing the creation (or even eruption of) these diamondiferous kimberlites. What I've seen of the reported geology of the area contains no reference to the extensive signs that an impact would leave behind. Take one large pinch of salt there.
 Signature Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:56 +0100, but posted later. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
rms - 05 Apr 2008 19:32 GMT >> By the way, early in this same show a diamond mine in Canada was >> discussed, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > contains no reference to the extensive signs that an impact would leave > behind. I'd have to see the show again to get the name of the mine, but it had the researchers talking in a mineshaft very far down, and speaking of how unlikely it used to seem to find evidence of an impact so deep.
rms
rms - 05 Apr 2008 20:26 GMT > I'd have to see the show again to get the name of the mine, but it had > the researchers talking in a mineshaft very far down, and speaking of how > unlikely it used to seem to find evidence of an impact so deep. Luann Becker is the researcher, btw.
rms
Aidan Karley - 07 Apr 2008 02:37 GMT > Luann Becker is the researcher, btw. A penguin-botherer it would seem. affiliations include a NASA Exobiology programme, with which Peter Ward is (has been) associated. Interesting collection of papers on her web pages - I'll have a good read tomorrow.
 Signature Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:08 +0100, but posted later. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Aidan Karley - 07 Apr 2008 02:37 GMT > I'd have to see the show again to get the name of the mine, but it had > the researchers talking in a mineshaft very far down, and speaking of how > unlikely it used to seem to find evidence of an impact so deep. ISTR that all the diamond mining in Canada is opencast?
Ah, a few minutes thinking in the bath and the answer came to me : you're mis-remembering someone talking in one of the nickel mines around Sudbury, Ontario. They do have significant underground workings [TTBOMK ... checking, a 2005 seminar says "Today, Incosrc="/NRs Sudbury operations consist of six underground mines, one mill, one smelter and one refinery," cite ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/12/12.753/s05/imagegallery/pages/20.html ], and the Sudbury structure is generally accepted as being the result of an impact (www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/images/sudbury.htm) of considerable age (1830Ma according to the impacts database ; clearly before the Grenvillian- oriented deformation of the structure).
 Signature Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:08 +0100, but posted later. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
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