Talk.Origins banned subject: What is a kind continued

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jabriol - 13 May 2004 18:16 GMT

>To:creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com
>From: "tinroad66"
>
>> The Biblical "kinds" seem to constitute
>divisions of
>> life-forms wherein each division allows for
>> cross-fertility within its limits. If so,
>then the
>> boundary between "kinds" is to be drawn at
>the point
>> where fertilization ceases to occur.
>
>Tin: So unlike real taxonomy "kind" is
>defined in a way
>that can
>support creationist rhetoric rather than in
>a way that
>might have
>practical scientific utility.

don't know about creationist, but it seem to apply to
today
observations,
there is no evidence of any new lifeform comming into
existence via
evoluition.
most Genus are abiut the same, since Man start dealing
with other
creatures,
no life form has appeared. Not even by genetic
engineering.

>> In recent years, the term "species" has
>been applied
>> in such a manner as to cause confusion
>when it is
>> compared with the word "kind." The basic
>meaning of
>> "species" is "a sort; kind; variety."
>
>Tin: Now that we know that evolution can
>produce new
>species,
>species as Kind simply won't support
>creationist
>rhetoric. Can't
>have that !

see my earleir reply.

>In biologic
>> terminology, however, it applies to any
>group of
>> interfertile animals or plants mutually
>possessing one
>> or more distinctive characteristics. Thus,
>there could
>> be many such species or varieties within a
>single
>> division of the Genesis "kinds."
>
>Tin: So since we know that evolution can
>produce
>reproductively
>incompatable life forms than evolution can
>produce new
>kinds and
>claims to the contrary are 'kind of wrong'.

any examples of "new life forms"

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MurphyInOhio - 14 May 2004 01:43 GMT

>jabriol
> any examples of "new life forms"

Jabriol, there are LOTS of new life forms "evolving" all the time...in
the minds of the true believers. There is that "life" they keep
rediscovering on the ALH meteorite. And...how about the coelocanth. It
went extinct...uh...200 MYA and by the miraculous effects of Natural
Selection, it re-evolved again in 1935.

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JaBrIoL - 14 May 2004 12:09 GMT

> >jabriol
> > any examples of "new life forms"
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> went extinct...uh...200 MYA and by the miraculous effects of Natural
> Selection, it re-evolved again in 1935.

But this more or less speciation, which I do not have aproblem with.
Any new Genus?

something that can be observed tested falsified, or can even pass the
scientific method?

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Zool of Love - 14 May 2004 17:20 GMT

Signature

Jabriol is a Jehovah's Witness and so *IS* a devout creationist. *All* JWs
are creationists. Please remove ARJW from this thread since no one here is
interested or participates in these endless Jabriol evolution/creation
debates.

Thank you :-)
The Zools....
==========================

> > >jabriol
> > > any examples of "new life forms"

------------------------------------------------SNIPPO!

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JaBrIoL - 16 May 2004 16:43 GMT

>don't know about creationist, but it seem to apply to
>> today
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>In fact, in multiple instances, wild species/kinds were reproduced in
>the lab through deliberate hybridization.

and the example are.... what exactly?

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Lam Son 719 - 21 May 2004 23:08 GMT

> >don't know about creationist, but it seem to apply to
> >> today
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> and the example are.... what exactly?

Adiantum pedatum
Primula kewensis
And one of the oldest lab species, Oenothera gigas

Is that exact enough for you?

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John Wilkins - 22 May 2004 04:31 GMT

> > >don't know about creationist, but it seem to apply to
> > >> today
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Is that exact enough for you?

Don't forget Peloria, named by Linnaeus in 1744, as a hybrid novelty.

Signature

John S Wilkins PhD - www.wilkins.id.au
a little emptier, a little spent
as always by that quiver in the self,
subjugated, yes, and obedient. -- Seamus Heaney

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tzoiszrj@search26.com - 06 Dec 2004 12:53 GMT

http://www.ardice.com/Science/Biology/Flora_and_Fauna/Plantae/Polypodiophyta/Pol
ypodiopsida/Adiantaceae/Adiantum/

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uefzllog@search26.com - 06 Dec 2004 12:57 GMT

http://www.ardice.com/Science/Biology/Flora_and_Fauna/Plantae/Polypodiophyta/Pol
ypodiopsida/Adiantaceae/Adiantum/Adiantum_pedatum/

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Lam Son 719 - 14 May 2004 02:13 GMT

> >To:creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com
> >From: "tinroad66"
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> ...
> any examples of "new life forms"

Plenty. If you use your own definition (the "limits" of
"cross-fertility"), then numerous examples of "new life forms" via
hybridization/polyploidy in plants have been produced, almost at will,
for more than a century. These hybrids are interfertile only with
themselves, not with either parent species (or "kind", if you prefer).
In fact, in multiple instances, wild species/kinds were reproduced in
the lab through deliberate hybridization.

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VoiceOfReason - 22 May 2004 06:09 GMT

> >To:creation_evolution_debate@yahoogroups.com
> >From: "tinroad66"
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the point
> >> where fertilization ceases to occur.

Talk.Origins banned subject? ROFL! In other words, people over
there won't listen to your ridiculous rantings.

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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Paleontology / December 2004

Talk.Origins banned subject: What is a kind continued