Family words came first for early humans
Anna Gosline
19:00 21 July 04
One of a Neanderthal baby's first words was probably "papa", concludes one
of the most comprehensive attempts to date to make out what the first human
language was like.
Many of the estimated 6000 languages now spoken share common words and
meanings, notably for kin names like "mama" and "papa". That has led some
linguists to suggest that these words have been carried through from humans'
original proto-language, spoken at least 50,000 years ago.
But without information on exactly how often these words occur across
distantly related languages, there has been little evidence to support that
claim.
What is more, some words of similar sound and meaning, such as the English
"day" and the Spanish "dia", are known to have arisen independently.
Now Pierre Bancel and Alain Matthey de l'Etang from the Association for the
Study of Linguistics and Prehistoric Anthropology in Paris have found that
the word "papa" is present in almost 700 of the 1000 languages for which
they have complete data on words for close family members.
Common ancestry
Those languages come from all the 14 or so major language families. And the
meaning of "papa" is remarkably consistent: in 71 per cent of cases it means
father or a male relative on the father's side.
"There is only one explanation for the consistent meaning of the word
'papa': a common ancestry," Bancel says. He presented the findings at the
Origins of Language and Psychosis conference in Oxford, UK, in July 2004.
But debate over whether modern languages carry the remnants of the language
spoken at the dawn of humanity is likely to continue. Don Ringe, a linguist
at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, says that babies may
simply associate the first sound they can make with the first people they
see - their parents. That, too, would lead to words like "papa" acquiring
similar meaning in many languages.
Even Bancel admits that there will never be conclusive proof. "We have no
Neanderthals around to ask."
From NewScientist
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996188
Comment:
I don't know why they mention Neanderthals, considering they were not in our
lineage.
Posted by
Robert Karl Stonjek
firstjois - 23 Jul 2004 01:14 GMT
>> Family words came first for early humans
>> Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> concludes one of the most comprehensive attempts to date to make out
>> what the first human language was like.
[snip]
>> From NewScientist
>> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996188
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> Posted by
>> Robert Karl Stonjek
That's because our lineage said, "Mama" first.
Jois
John Roth - 23 Jul 2004 01:22 GMT
> Family words came first for early humans
> Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> I don't know why they mention Neanderthals, considering they were not in our
> lineage.
That's because they're linguists, not paleoanthropologists. I keep an
eye on both camps, and find that there is a yawning chasm of lack
of understanding, covered up by assumptions on both sides about
what the other side knows.
As far as I'm concerned, language at that level probably
preceeds the time that the Neanderthals split off. Of course,
I'm probably in a very small minority on that one... [grin]
John Roth
> Posted by
> Robert Karl Stonjek
deowll - 23 Jul 2004 02:17 GMT
> > Family words came first for early humans
> > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> > Posted by
> > Robert Karl Stonjek
At that level? Maybe habilis.
Anne Gilbert - 23 Jul 2004 06:48 GMT
All:
I tend to th ink that language goes back *at least* to the time of
H.erectus.
Anne G
ar as I'm concerned, language at that level probably
> preceeds the time that the Neanderthals split off. Of course,
> I'm probably in a very small minority on that one... [grin]
John Wilkins - 23 Jul 2004 06:59 GMT
> All:
>
> I tend to th ink that language goes back *at least* to the time of
> H.erectus.
Except for their sports commentators.
> Anne G
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 7/19/2004

Signature
John Wilkins
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"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
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Ross Macfarlane - 23 Jul 2004 08:22 GMT
...
> As far as I'm concerned, language at that level probably
> preceeds the time that the Neanderthals split off. Of course,
> I'm probably in a very small minority on that one... [grin]
>
> John Roth
You needn't be so self-effacing John. Fossil evidence, aka the Kebara
hyoid bone, is on your side...
Ross Macfarlane :-)
John Roth - 23 Jul 2004 11:44 GMT
> ...
> > As far as I'm concerned, language at that level probably
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> You needn't be so self-effacing John. Fossil evidence, aka the Kebara
> hyoid bone, is on your side...
Isn't the "Broca Bump" in one of the early skulls (I don't remember
the catalog number - the discussion was quite a while ago) even earlier?
John Roth
> Ross Macfarlane :-)
Philip Deitiker - 23 Jul 2004 04:56 GMT
> Family words came first for early humans
> Anna Gosline
>
> 19:00 21 July 04
>
> One of a Neanderthal baby's first words was
Hogwash. That is after he learned some linquist had yet another
brain fart.

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Su Solomon - 23 Jul 2004 14:16 GMT
> > Family words came first for early humans
> > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Hogwash.
Now, that is a very interesting first word!
Yours Phil?
> That is after he learned some linquist had yet another
> brain fart.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Sci. Arch. Aux
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sciarchauxilliary/
MIB529 - 23 Jul 2004 20:58 GMT
> > > Family words came first for early humans
> > > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Yours Phil?
LOL Actually, for once I agree with Phil. Papa and mama
make sense for Romance and Germanic speakers, but once
you get out of the Indo-European family, it tends to
fall apart. I mean, according to this, Lakota can't be
descended from early modern humans because the word for
father is ate and the word for mother is ina. And then
there's generational and bifurcate merging patterns
versus descriptive and lineal patterns; in the former,
the concept of "mother" isn't limited to the woman who
gave birth to you and the concept of "father" isn't
limited to the man married to said woman.
Su Solomon - 25 Jul 2004 10:22 GMT
> > > > Family words came first for early humans
> > > > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> descended from early modern humans because the word for
> father is ate and the word for mother is ina.
Add the austral languages and same thing happens: voila!
Papa in Pitjantjantjarra is : a Dog!
LOL
> And then
> there's generational and bifurcate merging patterns
> versus descriptive and lineal patterns; in the former,
> the concept of "mother" isn't limited to the woman who
> gave birth to you and the concept of "father" isn't
> limited to the man married to said woman.
MIB529 - 25 Jul 2004 22:05 GMT
> > > > > Family words came first for early humans
> > > > > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Papa in Pitjantjantjarra is : a Dog!
It is kinda funny. Also, the fact that languages don't
always have a unique word for father or mother punches
a whole right through it.
Su Solomon - 26 Jul 2004 15:59 GMT
> > > > > > Family words came first for early humans
> > > > > > Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> always have a unique word for father or mother punches
> a whole right through it.
Yeah, languages, like people, move around and evolve.
Philip Deitiker - 24 Jul 2004 03:09 GMT
>> > One of a Neanderthal baby's first words was
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Yours Phil?
My first word was a grunt.
Have you seen my baby picture?
http://brainmuseum.org/specimens/primates/chimp/body/chimp6.jpg
I evolved at a more rapid pace during childhood.
John Harshman - 23 Jul 2004 19:26 GMT
> Family words came first for early humans
> Anna Gosline
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of the most comprehensive attempts to date to make out what the first human
> language was like.
One word: coalescence. Just as mtEve was not the first ancestor of the
human species, the common ancestor of all surviving languages is not the
common ancestor of all human languages. This press release is hopelessly
confused.