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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Paleontology / May 2005



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Pygmy village found near H. floresiensis site

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Robert Karl Stonjek - 30 Apr 2005 07:40 GMT
Carl Zimmer writes of a village about 1km from where the bones were found:

http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2005/04/29/hobbits_alive.php
http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/cat_hobbits_homo_floresiensis.html

 Rampasasa, made up of 77 families. About 80% of the people were
 pygmies. They measured 10 people who were a bit taller, with a height
 of 155 cm and 2 measuring 160 cm. Homo floresiensis was 130 cm. The
 researchers claim that these tall villagers got some extra height from
 having married non-pygmies from surrounding villages.

He gives a translation of the article in Kompas:

 http://www.kompas.com/kompas-cetak/0504/28/humaniora/1714417.htm

So are the bones of modern humans who have evolved as "pygmies" - or are
they of a "new species"?   Is is possible that a branch of hominid or
early homo sapiens evolved to be much smaller than modern humans, and
survive today, sometimes interbreeding with modern humans.

I have no detailed knowledge of what genetic changes would be required
to cause two lines of mammals to be incapable of producing fertile
offspring, but I figure it would be something like a differing number of
chromosomes, or some major structural changes in the genome.  It
wouldn't surprise me if a great deal of divergent evolution could take
place over hundreds of thousands of years without either group diverging
sufficiently to make them genetically incapable of having fertile offspring.

 - Robin Whittle

[Fowarded from 'Evolutionary Psychology' by Robert Karl Stonjek]
pete - 01 May 2005 19:39 GMT
> Carl Zimmer writes of a village about 1km from where the bones were
> found:
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> of
> chromosomes, or some major structural changes in the genome.

A different number of chromosomes would be insufficient
to cause cross strerility.

> It
> wouldn't surprise me if a great deal of divergent evolution could take
> place over hundreds of thousands of years without either group
> diverging
> sufficiently to make them genetically incapable of having fertile
> offspring.

A lot of species which can cross breed,
like wolves and coyotes,
just simpley don't do it very often.

There's no evidence that Homo sapiens couldn't
cross breed with any of the other Homo species.

Signature

pete

Nick Maclaren - 03 May 2005 17:06 GMT
|> Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
|> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
|> A different number of chromosomes would be insufficient
|> to cause cross strerility.

In mammals, it generally does, or at least causes the offspring to
be sterile or otherwise non-viable (in evolutionary terms).  There
are very few human chromosome aberrations that are not seriously
harmful and, as far as I know, no stable ones that are.

One of the well-known problems with evolution is how such changes
occur.  Simple calculations of the survival probabilities (to
reproduction) indicate that almost such mutations should die out
fast (as is observed), and that the probability of them becoming
established is very low indeed.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
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