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Natural Science Forum / Biology / Paleontology / August 2006



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"janjucetus hunderi" discussed,article link

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seeker - 23 Aug 2006 21:32 GMT
Ferocious ancestor of whales

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/23/ancient.water.system.reut/index.html
Edward  Hennessey - 24 Aug 2006 21:36 GMT
> Ferocious ancestor of whales

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/23/ancient.water.system.r
eut/index.html

Link correction:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/16/blue.whale.ancestor.re
ut/index.html

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
John Harshman - 25 Aug 2006 00:36 GMT
Edward Hennessey wrote:

>>Ferocious ancestor of whales
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/16/blue.whale.ancestor.re
> ut/index.html

Mind the wrap. You have to love science journalism. How many fallacies
can you find in this short article? I've got two:

1. The assumption that this fossil is an ancestor of modern whales.

2. The claim that the fact this fossil has no baleen is evidence that
baleen had not evolved by 25ma. (Implied by but distinct from #1.)
Aardvark J. Bandersnatch - 25 Aug 2006 01:30 GMT
> Edward Hennessey wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> 2. The claim that the fact this fossil has no baleen is evidence that
> baleen had not evolved by 25ma. (Implied by but distinct from #1.)

1. It is not an assumption, it is an inference based upon comparative
anatomy.

2. There is no mention of 25ma.

3. It's not "science journalism." It's some editor's shortened version of a
report about a scientific finding.
John Harshman - 25 Aug 2006 01:52 GMT
>>Edward Hennessey wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> 1. It is not an assumption, it is an inference based upon comparative
> anatomy.

You are very confused. There is no way to tell from comparative anatomy
whether the fossil is an actual ancestor or just a cousin of that
ancestor. There is a 25ma (see below) toothed baleen whale. There is no
reason to suppose it's the actual ancestor of modern baleen whales. And
there is no reason to suppose that there were no baleen whales with
baleen back then, just as the existence of apes with primitive features
today (chimps, say) doesn't mean there are no highly derived primates
chattering on usenet.

> 2. There is no mention of 25ma.

"The 25 million-year-old fossil is of an early type of baleen whale..."

> 3. It's not "science journalism." It's some editor's shortened version of a
> report about a scientific finding.

Yes, that's science journalism. A reporter, or perhaps an editor, reads,
or perhaps skims, a scientific paper, or perhaps a university press
release and writes a little article on it. He may preserve existing
errors or introduce his own. I generally like to give scientists the
benefit of the doubt and suppose that the science journalist is at
fault. Sometimes I'm wrong.
 
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