There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
implications.
Longrich, N. 2006. Structure and function of hindlimb feathers in
Archaeopteryx lithographica. Paleobiology 32:417-431.
Re-examination of the hindlimb feathers shows that they are flight
feathers. That is, Archaeopteryx had 4 wings, just like Microraptor gui,
though not as well developed. This suggests that flight feathers are
primitive for dromaeosaurs, and thus that dromaeosaurs are secondarily
flightless. And it also suggests that the "trees-down" theory of the
origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
even more of an intermediate fossil.
Tom McDonald - 22 Sep 2006 04:23 GMT
> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
> even more of an intermediate fossil.
>From Longich's web site:
"Recently my paper on this was published; I found that the feather
structure and arrangement indicated that they were used as
lift-generating winglets, and calculated that these structures could
have significantly decreased both the stall speed and turning radius of
the bird. (Longrich, N. 2006. Structure and function of hindlimb
feathers in Archaeopteryx lithographica. Paleobiology
32(3):417-431).The idea of a multi-winged Archaeopteryx has been around
for more than a century, but it hasn't recieved much attention, for
several reasons. First, the feather impressions on the main slab(see
left), which so impressed early workers, were prepared away. Second,
having the Berlin specimen behind the Iron Curtain for decades probably
made it difficult to study. Third, people tend to see what they want or
expect to see. Everybody "knows" that birds don't have four wings so it
became possible to overlook them even when they are in plain sight. I
first studied the Berlin specimen back in 2001 and, if I even noticed
them at all, it never would have occurred to me to examine the hind
limb feathers: I "knew" that the hindlimbs weren't relevant to the
aerodynamics of early birds. It wasn't until the 2003 discovery of the
four-winged dromaeosaurs from China (Microraptor gui and its relatives)
that I was prepared to see what had been right in front of my nose just
a few years before."
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~longrich/archaeopteryx.html
Ken Shaw - 22 Sep 2006 08:04 GMT
> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
> even more of an intermediate fossil.
Did Feduccia explode before or after this paper was published?
Ken
John Harshman - 22 Sep 2006 15:38 GMT
>>There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>>implications.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Did Feduccia explode before or after this paper was published?
He imploded, but that happened long ago.
Augray - 22 Sep 2006 13:20 GMT
>There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>implications.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
>even more of an intermediate fossil.
I wonder if this indicates that Archaeopteryx wasn't a flapping flyer.
Would the hindlimbs interfere with air being pushed by the downstroke?
Also, a minor error in the paper has Oviraptors included in
Eumaniraptora, which is a node based definition including dromaeosaurs
and birds. But it's a very interesting paper.
John Harshman - 22 Sep 2006 15:40 GMT
>>There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>>implications.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I wonder if this indicates that Archaeopteryx wasn't a flapping flyer.
> Would the hindlimbs interfere with air being pushed by the downstroke?
Based on the reconstruction, it doesn't seem that way to me.
> Also, a minor error in the paper has Oviraptors included in
> Eumaniraptora, which is a node based definition including dromaeosaurs
> and birds. But it's a very interesting paper.
Danniel Soares - 22 Sep 2006 22:26 GMT
> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
> even more of an intermediate fossil.
The apparent fact that Archaeopteryx hadn't the toe adapted to perching
weakens a bit the trees-down, does not? Or at least ideas that its
ancestors were long-adapted to an primary arboreal lifestyle...
I think that it all makes the most plausible scenario something that is
in between the traditional "birds are modified maniraptorians" and what
I think is Gregory Paul's dromaeossaurs are secondary fligthless, in
which, I think, he supposes that archaeopteryx's ancestors were
arboreal for more time. Part of the connection between this hybrid may
be the WAIR hypothesis
Danniel Soares
Augray - 22 Sep 2006 23:22 GMT
>> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>The apparent fact that Archaeopteryx hadn't the toe adapted to perching
>weakens a bit the trees-down, does not?
Not necessarily. Apparently, there's no evidence of the reversed toe
until after the ratites (ostriches, emus, etc.) branched off.
>Or at least ideas that its
>ancestors were long-adapted to an primary arboreal lifestyle...
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>arboreal for more time. Part of the connection between this hybrid may
>be the WAIR hypothesis
In the paper, Longrich states that Archaeopteryx lacks a laterally
projecting supra-acetabular crest, thereby allowing the hindlegs to
splay out somewhat, and so places the leg feathers in an orientation
where they can supply lift. He points out that this crest is absent in
dromaeosaurs and oviraptors as well. This makes Paul's hypothesis all
the more likely.
>Danniel Soares
Nic - 22 Sep 2006 23:57 GMT
> >> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
> >> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Not necessarily. Apparently, there's no evidence of the reversed toe
> until after the ratites (ostriches, emus, etc.) branched off.
I didn't know that. Of course, "no evidence of the reversed toe until
after the ratites (ostriches, emus, etc.) branched off" is logically
compatible with evidence that ratites secondarily lost such, it just
makes one wonder.
> >Or at least ideas that its
> >ancestors were long-adapted to an primary arboreal lifestyle...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> dromaeosaurs and oviraptors as well. This makes Paul's hypothesis all
> the more likely.
I'm finding it hard to visualise. If you have to run along the ground
to take off, then you don't want drag from your legs - even thin
spindly ones are worth tucking away once you are airborne. Maybe the
thing didn't perch on branches, and instead hung beneath them like a
bat but using its forelimb claws?
> >Danniel Soares
John Harshman - 23 Sep 2006 00:04 GMT
>>>There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>>>implications.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Not necessarily. Apparently, there's no evidence of the reversed toe
> until after the ratites (ostriches, emus, etc.) branched off.
?
[snip]
Stanley Friesen - 04 Oct 2006 14:33 GMT
>> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
>> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>The apparent fact that Archaeopteryx hadn't the toe adapted to perching
>weakens a bit the trees-down, does not?
No, perching is probably not the earliest form of arboreal activity.
The more likely mode is vertical clinging and climbing - more like a
squirrel (or a hatchling hoatzin) than a robin.
> Or at least ideas that its
>ancestors were long-adapted to an primary arboreal lifestyle...
No, perching can probably only evolve *after* flight. How many
non-volant arboreal animals *perch* like birds?

Signature
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
Ron O - 23 Sep 2006 01:25 GMT
> There's an article in the new issue of Paleobiology that has some fun
> implications.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> origin of flight is the right one. And of course it makes Archaeopteryx
> even more of an intermediate fossil.
In chickens there is a trait called vulture hocks where thigh feathers
resemble small flight feathers instead of normal body feathers at that
location. This isn't just a rare developmental mess up, but is a breed
characteristic in breeds like Sultans.
Ron Okimoto
Danniel Soares - 05 Oct 2006 14:11 GMT
What about eagles? They seem to me to have feathers resembling pretty
much those of Archaeopteryx's hindlegs. Do these differ fundamentally
from those that Archaeopteryx? Well, of course I know that eagles do
not use them as apparently is being suggested that Archaeopteryx used,
more or less like those depictions of four winged Microraptor, only
with smaller hindwings; what I am asking is more if couldn't be that
Archae's hindleg wings are so "wings" as are those of eagles, which, as
far as I know (which isn't really far) are not wings at all...
Danniel Soares
John Harshman - 05 Oct 2006 15:31 GMT
> What about eagles? They seem to me to have feathers resembling pretty
> much those of Archaeopteryx's hindlegs. Do these differ fundamentally
> from those that Archaeopteryx?
Yes. They are not flight feathers. They are contour feathers.
> Well, of course I know that eagles do
> not use them as apparently is being suggested that Archaeopteryx used,
> more or less like those depictions of four winged Microraptor, only
> with smaller hindwings; what I am asking is more if couldn't be that
> Archae's hindleg wings are so "wings" as are those of eagles, which, as
> far as I know (which isn't really far) are not wings at all...