 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Natural Science Forum / Biology / Paleontology / May 2007All traces gone?
Just a thought experiment... Suppose that mankind exterminates itself in a near future, by a nuclear war or something like that. Assume further that no intelligent species arises on Earth or visits Earth from space for the next 100 million years. Then, after 100 million years, a species as intelligent as human being either arises on Earth or visits Earth from space. Will there then be enough traces left of us humans and the civilization we created, so that this future species can infer that an intelligent species existed on Earth 100 million years before? (Recall that modern human beings have only existed for about 100 000 years, and advanced civilizations for less than 10 000 years, which is very short in a geological perspective.) If the answer of the above question is no, is it then possible that a species as intelligent as human being existed on Earth and built a civilization as advanced as ours, say, 100 milliion years ago, but that the time they existed was too short for their existence to be discovered by us today? Regards, Erland Gadde > Just a thought experiment... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > years, and advanced civilizations for less than 10 000 years, which is > very short in a geological perspective.) The weird science crowd are always finding sparkplugs or something in rock. I don't know that those are legit, but I know caves and rivers where it is quite possible that some of the detritus of our civilization may become fossilized--shoes, socks, beer cans, glass bottles. etc. And people have dumped quite a bit overboard into the oceans. Also think lava flows, Pompeii, Herculaneum, etc. Just as we dig through archeological middens, I suspect that some of our larger landfills might be partly preserved. Now, whether or not some creature 100 million years from now will recognize them as artificial creations, I don't know. > If the answer of the above question is no, is it then possible that a > species as intelligent as human being existed on Earth and built a > civilization as advanced as ours, say, 100 milliion years ago, but > that the time they existed was too short for their existence to be > discovered by us today? In my part of the country, there is a geological time gap between 1.1 Ga and 540 Ma-- about 500 Ma lost. We don't have a clue what happened then except (cumulatively) erosion. I don't personally think there was an intelligent civilization there, but cannot say with any certainty there was not. How would we know what constitutes intelligence in a non-human civilization? We tend to think in terms of building and artifacts, but scientists know dolphins have decent sized brains, and Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe) and some New Agers believe they are as intelligent as we right now, having either passed beyond the building stage, or been limited by lack of hands. I sure hope there are species more intelligent than humans. So far, I am underimpressed by most of us. Climate change buries coastal cities in limestone and shale. On May 11, 9:44 am, Jo Schaper <jospamnotschaper34@5socket78dot9net> wrote: >> Will there then be enough traces left of us humans and the >> civilization we created, so that this future species can infer that an >> intelligent species existed on Earth 100 million years before? > > it is quite possible that some of the detritus of our civilization > may become fossilized Agreed, but I'm not sure how much will be left after 100 Ma. Keep in mind the number of dinosaur fossil we actually have of any given species is rather small (something like 30, mostly partial, skeltons for the vaunted T. Rex, for instance). Buring of coastal cities, or long-term preservation in fossil deserts (Sahara exapnds yet again, covers structures, and then compresses to sandstone) might be another interesting possibility - cross-bedding with imbedded structures). This has actually come up over on rasfs on more than one occassion (I think most recetnly with regard to "detecting" a dinosaur civilization). Mankind has left some startlingly obvious evidence behind, like mass extinctions across global ecosystem without corresponding climate change (the loss of the megafauna on both N. America and Australia at exactly the same geologic time... hey, from 100 Ma in the future, a few tens of thousands of years *would* be "exactly the same geologic time"). The dearth of desposits of reduced hydrocarbons might be a clue (although for a future Earth-bound civilization, you have to ask "less hydrocarbon deposits compared to what?"). Another very possible clue would be the trace isotope evidence: Uranium breaks down at an easily-verified rate, and humans have produced a lot more isotopic daughters than "should be" around for this time period. Imagine what happens if they find a nuclear waste dump, with material that simply should not have been able to occur naturally (natural fission reactors are identifiable... and easily verified to be much much MUCH older than any of our recent nuclear waste dumps). Direct evidence I'm not sure of, but it's possible I suppose. Indirect and trace evidence, I have no doubt about. To and advanced race, it will be obvious we were here long (at least tens, perhaps 100's, of Ma) after we've gone the way of the Dodo. > I sure hope there are species more intelligent than humans. > So far, I am underimpressed by most of us. Ditto. As individuals we're unimpressive... but as a species, we seem to be positively dangerous :-). -- Brian Davis >> Just a thought experiment... >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I sure hope there are species more intelligent than humans. So far, I am > underimpressed by most of us. There's already plenty that has been lost at sea that no doubt could be re-discovered by some future human replacement (garbage, ships, etc). But the clincher, I think, especially if we off ourselves with nukes, would be the radioactive debris left over as a shining signature that we were here. And noe doubt, if some future species should find this evidence, they would call the era of man the "weshouldhavecene". :-) George > Just a thought experiment... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > years, and advanced civilizations for less than 10 000 years, which is > very short in a geological perspective.) I would say that the likelihood of that is high, especially if they were willing to do a little digging. > If the answer of the above question is no, is it then possible that a > species as intelligent as human being existed on Earth and built a > civilization as advanced as ours, say, 100 milliion years ago, but > that the time they existed was too short for their existence to be > discovered by us today? Is it possible? I suppose it is, but if they were as widespread as humans then I'm sure we would have found plenty of evidence for their existence by now. As Jo mentioned, there are plenty of areas where the geographic record has been wiped out for a large period of time. If they were confined mostly to one of those areas, then there might not be many traces of them left behind, or what little there was might be mistaken for a natural phenomenon. > Just a thought experiment... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Erland Gadde Future beings will find numerous carbonized fossils in all sorts of sedimentary formations. These fossils are very thin and approx 1/2 meter square.. Many of them will have traces of writing in some strange language. Those traces generally read: "*AL-MAR*, or W*L-*ART". Hard to determine if intelligent life created them.,however. >Just a thought experiment... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >million years. Then, after 100 million years, a species as intelligent >as human being either arises on Earth or visits Earth from space. Geologic record is one of deposits and erosion >Will there then be enough traces left of us humans and the >civilization we created, so that this future species can infer that an >intelligent species existed on Earth 100 million years before? >(Recall that modern human beings have only existed for about 100 000 >years, and advanced civilizations for less than 10 000 years, which is >very short in a geological perspective.) 10,000 years is a very thin line in a 100 million year column It is only 1/10,000th Not all evidence would be erased, but would there be enough pieces left to lead to a conclusion which eliminated the hundreds, if not thousand other possible explains? That would depend on the type of evidence, and how intelligent the species interpreting it. Also, the paradigm for understanding the past would be different for being arising on Earth versus visitors from space. However, one piece of writing would be more than enough. >If the answer of the above question is no, is it then possible that a >species as intelligent as human being existed on Earth and built a >civilization as advanced as ours, say, 100 milliion years ago, but >that the time they existed was too short for their existence to be >discovered by us today? It is possible, personally am not aware of any evidence which would even need to be interpreted as arising from intelligent beings. JT > Just a thought experiment... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Erland Gadde Depends on hitting exactly the right spot for us. We don't have any evidence for their next of kin either. That is nothing seems to have had the kind of brain power that would have been on the verge of tech. Something less smart than an ostrich would have been as good as it got. At the present and in the recent past their are a lot of rather large brained animals. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.