Dual Space theory offers replacement for relativity's gravity
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Andrew P. - 19 Jan 2005 14:13 GMT This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am having to use another computer.
I have rewritten parts of my book "Dual Space-New Physics for a New Century" to show how gravity works in Dual Space. The text is available in .Pdf and Word forms at
http://www.dualspace.net/.
Since the theory itself covers 24 chapters and this material is just lifted from 2 chapters, there may be certain parts that need further explanation. I will be glad to try. Please spend some time trying to understand it; it's quite straightforward if you are open to finding an alternative to relativity. Remember that relativity got its start trying to account for the MichelsonMorley. You can see the Dual Space version in the paper. Dual Space started with a demand to know why gravity, radio and permittivity could exist in a vacuum and found another universe.
There's far more in the theory than shown here; this paper is to demonstrate viability. There's a different universe out there-one that moves at the speed of light!
John C. Polasek If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Uncle Al - 19 Jan 2005 16:13 GMT > This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am [snip]
You are not merely an ineducable idiot, you are a slow ineducable idiot, idiot.
<http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/tests.html> Mathematics of gravitation
<http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2001-4/index.html> http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039 <http://www.weburbia.demon.co.uk/physics/experiments.html> Experimental constraints on General Relativity
<http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2002/paper20.pdf> Nature 425 374 (2003) http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf <http://www.public.asu.edu/~rjjacob/Lecture16.pdf> <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/index.html> Relativity in the GPS system
Science 303(5661) 1143;1153 (2004) http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0401086 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0312071 <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-5/index.html> Deeply relativistic neutron star binaries
<http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/pdf/prl83-3585.pdf> http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301024 Nordtvedt Effect
 Signature Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
Androcles - 19 Jan 2005 18:20 GMT >> This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and >> am > [snip] > > You are not merely an ineducable idiot, you are a slow ineducable > idiot, idiot. You are such a bore, Schwartz. Same old answer to every post. Why do you even bother? We all know what you have to say, it never changes. Now shut the f.ck up for a change. Androcles.
Helmut Wabnig - 19 Jan 2005 19:50 GMT >>> This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and >>> am [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Now shut the f.ck up for a change. >Androcles. Hmmm....
I vote for Uncle Al.
w.
John C. Polasek - 19 Jan 2005 20:45 GMT >>>> This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and >>>> am [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >w. It would be more convincing if you cited equations numbers. It is evident you haven't read any of it. I look forward to more reasoned opinions.
This theory completely replaces relativity because the model makes more sense. You don't really believe there's curved empty space, gamma m0c^2, energy that falls. When it becomes known how this theory works, all those buzzwords and mystery about light cones and principle of equivalence and falling Lorentz frames and the hassles why the MM failed (see Fig. 7) will no longer be interesting. Furthermore, relativity hasn't a hope of explaining the Pioneer 10 anomaly. It is child's play with Dual Space.
You don't think I went through all this work starting with a failed premise? Again, please cite equation numbers if you dispute the content.
John Polasek
If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Uncle Al - 19 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT > >>>> This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and > >>>> am [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > more sense. You don't really believe there's curved empty space, gamma > m0c^2, energy that falls. Affine gravitation has no spacetime curvature and exactly duplcates General Relativity in all its predicted phenomena, qualitative and quantitative. The unfailing diagnostic of a crackpot or crank is that the idiot has not done his chari parade. You are protected by your ignorance. I will restore what idiot Androcles snpped,
You are not merely an ineducable idiot, you are a slow ineducable idiot, idiot.
<http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/tests.html> Mathematics of gravitation
<http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2001-4/index.html> http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039 <http://www.weburbia.demon.co.uk/physics/experiments.html> Experimental constraints on General Relativity
<http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2002/paper20.pdf> Nature 425 374 (2003) http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf <http://www.public.asu.edu/~rjjacob/Lecture16.pdf> <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/index.html> Relativity in the GPS system
Science 303(5661) 1143;1153 (2004) http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0401086 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0312071 <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-5/index.html> Deeply relativistic neutron star binaries
<http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/pdf/prl83-3585.pdf> http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301024 Nordtvedt Effect
You haven't a chance, Polasek, not because you are an idiot but because you are an empirical idiot. Experiment proves you wrong.
> You don't think I went through all this work starting with a failed > premise? Again, please cite equation numbers if you dispute the > content. Calculate Mercury's perihelion precession. Compare with historical values. Dead on Arrival. And again,
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0306076.pdf <http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/gps/absolute-gps-1meter-3.ASP> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/gpsuser/gpsuser.pdf http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.html http://sirius.chinalake.navy.mil/satpred/ http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html http://egtphysics.net/GPS/RelGPS.htm http://www.schriever.af.mil/gps/Current/current.oa1 http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html <http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html> More Relativity in the GPS sytem.
Your "theroy" is Dead on Arrival, Polasek, killed so many times there isn't even a smear remaining.
 Signature Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
Chris O'Riordan - 20 Jan 2005 17:16 GMT Why not a unispace theory? I guess I've got neither something nor nothing to say.
Richard Herring - 21 Jan 2005 15:34 GMT >This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >http://www.dualspace.net/. Fails at the second sentence: "This theory has detected..."
 Signature Richard Herring
John C. Polasek - 21 Jan 2005 16:31 GMT >>This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >>having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Fails at the second sentence: "This theory has detected..." You haven't read the first 7 chapters of the book, but it's boiled down in my reply to FreddiFizzix at the thread "Re: Taking Apart Standard Model or extending it?". I have had to leave out all the development that proves that remark, since it is clear that just expecting anyone to go beyond even 2 equations appears unrealistic. Try getting past that and look at how the theory picks apart the GPS corrections.
John Polasek If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Richard Herring - 24 Jan 2005 10:30 GMT >>>This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >>>having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Standard Model or extending it?". >I have had to leave out all the development that proves that remark, Your development would be in linguistics or Humpty-Dumptyist logic, presumably?
Theories _describe_; in some sense of the word, they may possibly _explain_. They even _predict_.
But I don't believe they can "detect".
 Signature Richard Herring
John C. Polasek - 24 Jan 2005 15:03 GMT >>>>This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >>>>having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >But I don't believe they can "detect". Let's not joust about verbiage. When I set out to learn why permittivity (and gravity) was possible in a vacuum, and why the vacuum could hold electric energy, then I found it had to be due to virtual electron-positron pairs, using Maxwell's equations and Anderson's pair production experiment. And I determined the exact pair density and other properties of the vacuum. I found the density was so high, millions of times greater than iron, that I "detected", surmised, hypothesized a space far greater than our universe, and out of which I surmised that our universe was created. And in fact that is the case, this is the dual universe, because the extraction of electrons from this "Espace" created pressure gradients which directly cause gravity as quantified by the Navier Stokes equations. Taking electrons for our universe left an equal number of created positrons in this Espace.
John Polasek If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Richard Herring - 24 Jan 2005 15:54 GMT >>>>>This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >>>>>having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>But I don't believe they can "detect". >Let's not joust about verbiage. "Detect" is important. It implies something empirical. As correspondence with empirical reality is the ultimate test for any scientific theory, you really shouldn't dismiss your own claim as mere verbiage.
>When I set out to learn why permittivity (and gravity) was possible in >a vacuum, and why the vacuum could hold electric energy, then I found [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >that I "detected", surmised, hypothesized a space far greater than our >universe, and out of which I surmised that our universe was created. Ah, so it's only a surmise after all. How disappointing.
>And in fact that is the case, this is the dual universe, because "because"? non sequitur.
>the >extraction of electrons from this "Espace" created pressure gradients >which directly cause gravity as quantified by the Navier Stokes >equations. Taking electrons for our universe left an equal number of >created positrons in this Espace. So what experimentally testable predictions does your theory make? Are any of them different from the predictions of the standard model?
And does your theory make any testable predictions at all about the dual space?
>John Polasek >If you have something to say, write an equation. Permittivity is an equation for the metric, written in silly units.
>If you have nothing to say, write an essay If the cap fits...
 Signature Richard Herring
John C. Polasek - 24 Jan 2005 18:09 GMT >>>>>>This is a re-posting. My newsreader is at least 24 hours behind and am >>>>>>having to use another computer. [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > >If the cap fits... Yes Dual Space theory is the only one that can explain the Pioneer 10 anomaly. But why do I get the feeling that it wouldn't pay to try to explain it to a roundhead such as yourself? You probably even believe in the Big Bang theory.
John Polasek
If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Richard Herring - 25 Jan 2005 12:17 GMT [big snip]
>>So what experimentally testable predictions does your theory make? Are >>any of them different from the predictions of the standard model? >> >>And does your theory make any testable predictions at all about the dual >>space? What, no answer?
>>>John Polasek >>>If you have something to say, write an equation. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >But why do I get the feeling that it wouldn't pay to try to explain it >to a roundhead such as yourself? Evasion noted. This isn't a private dialogue, we have an audience. Feel free to try to explain it to *them*.
>You probably even believe in Category error. I don't "believe in" any scientific theory: belief is for religion.
>the Big >Bang theory. Does it make testable predictions?
 Signature Richard Herring
John C. Polasek - 25 Jan 2005 15:24 GMT >[big snip] > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> >Does it make testable predictions? Read my paper at http://www.dualspace.net. Read it and study it. It's new physics. Forget all that pharisaical pablum about testable predictions and falsifiable claptrap and talk physics.. I point out for example on page 8 where the Pound Rebka redshift test is in trouble, the relativity mathematics leading to a double redshift. That's because a clock in the well would radiate slow by z, the photon at the top would be fatigued by another z, and then read by a clock with a rate of 1, for a total shift of 2z, using the assumption of constant c. With Dual Space, the ray starts slow from the well, does not change frequency or energy on the way up, but c increases out of the well, stretching the wavelength once for a 1-z shift.
Dual Space also implies that energy does not fall in gravity, whereas in relativity mass and energy are held interchangeable. You really think you can get mc2 out of m by some as yet undisclosed method.
Here's a falsifiable prediction: there is about a 10% difference in the summation of velocities on page 6. If you had read any of it you would be crowing about it. Have somebody test it.
Here's another one: DS shows how E = mc2 in two steps (read about it in Eq. 8) so that total energy is always 1/2mc2 as in Eq. 9. The first 1/2mc2 is cost of extraction of electrons and has a 100% re-stocking charge i.e. you can't deal with the first half. mc2 is simply the effort required to create m. Relativity just says it's so.
Here's another one: our universe is flying through time In Espace at c, otherwise you can't solve the Pioneer 10 anomaly.
Read the paper and try to soak something up. Dont look for an exposition of relativity by another route. From the ground up, this is a different theory with the same results but understandable, see the GPS analysis Fig. 2 and the table.
But all this persiflage is wasted if you think my theory has anything to do with your precious standard model, which is not more than an adjustable parts list.
John Polasek If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Richard Herring - 25 Jan 2005 15:43 GMT >>[big snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>> >>Does it make testable predictions?
>Read my paper at http://www.dualspace.net. Read it and study it. It's >new physics. Forget all that pharisaical pablum about testable >predictions and falsifiable claptrap and talk physics.. Evasion noted. If you can't even answer that simple question with a "yes" or "no", I see no point in continuing to read any further.
 Signature Richard Herring
John C. Polasek - 25 Jan 2005 18:18 GMT >>>[big snip] >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >Evasion noted. If you can't even answer that simple question with a >"yes" or "no", I see no point in continuing to read any further. You should be banned from sci.physics. You cut the following from my response without notice, which is illegal. It directly answers your puling petitions for testable predictions.
This is what you cut:
"I point out for example on page 8 where the Pound Rebka redshift test is in trouble, the relativity mathematics leading to a double redshift. That's because a clock in the well would radiate slow by z, the photon at the top would be fatigued by another z, and then read by a clock with a rate of 1, for a total shift of 2z, using the assumption of constant c. With Dual Space, the ray starts slow from the well, does not change frequency or energy on the way up, but c increases out of the well, stretching the wavelength once for a 1-z shift.
Dual Space also implies that energy does not fall in gravity, whereas in relativity mass and energy are held interchangeable. You really think you can get mc2 out of m by some as yet undisclosed method.
Here's a falsifiable prediction: there is about a 10% difference in the summation of velocities on page 6. If you had read any of it you would be crowing about it. Have somebody test it.
Here's another one: DS shows how E = mc2 in two steps (read about it in Eq. 8) so that total energy is always 1/2mc2 as in Eq. 9. The first 1/2mc2 is cost of extraction of electrons and has a 100% re-stocking charge i.e. you can't deal with the first half. mc2 is simply the effort required to create m. Relativity just says it's so.
Here's another one: our universe is flying through time In Espace at c, otherwise you can't solve the Pioneer 10 anomaly.
Read the paper and try to soak something up. Dont look for an exposition of relativity by another route. From the ground up, this is a different theory with the same results but understandable, see the GPS analysis Fig. 2 and the table.
But all this persiflage is wasted if you think my theory has anything to do with your precious standard model, which is not more than an adjustable parts list."
You are a miserable inconsequential twit, but I thank you for being a willing punching bag. I can't snip anything of yours, because there's nothing there to snip.
John Polasek
If you have something to say, write an equation. If you have nothing to say, write an essay
Richard Herring - 26 Jan 2005 09:53 GMT >>>>[big snip] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>Evasion noted. If you can't even answer that simple question with a >>"yes" or "no", I see no point in continuing to read any further.
>You should be banned from sci.physics. "Banned"? ROFL
> You cut the following from my >response without notice, That would be because, as stated, I didn't read it. When you answer a simple question like "does it make testable predictions" with an obvious evasion, there's no point in continuing.
>which is illegal. "Illegal" ? Do they have different laws in Dual Space? ROFL^2
>It directly answers your >puling petitions for testable predictions. Really? Doesn't that contradict the following quote?
>>> Forget all that pharisaical pablum about testable >>>predictions and falsifiable claptrap and talk physics..
>This is what you cut: [snip the rest unread]
 Signature Richard Herring
AaronB - 26 Jan 2005 04:03 GMT > >[big snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > new physics. Forget all that pharisaical pablum about testable > predictions and falsifiable claptrap and talk physics.. Testable predictions is physics. Everything else is philosophy.
[snip]
> Dual Space also implies that energy does not fall in gravity, whereas > in relativity mass and energy are held interchangeable. You really > think you can get mc2 out of m by some as yet undisclosed method. Then the theory is wrong. Experiments show that energy falls in a gravitational field. This has been tested to better than three parts in one trillion accuracy.
> Here's a falsifiable prediction: there is about a 10% difference in > the summation of velocities on page 6. If you had read any of it you > would be crowing about it. Have somebody test it. Show me an experiment where the velocity agrees with your theory. There are a great many that agree with relativity.
> Here's another one: DS shows how E = mc2 in two steps (read about it > in Eq. 8) so that total energy is always 1/2mc2 as in Eq. 9. > The first 1/2mc2 is cost of extraction of electrons and has a 100% > re-stocking charge i.e. you can't deal with the first half. mc2 is > simply the effort required to create m. Relativity just says it's so. This statement makes no sense.
> Here's another one: our universe is flying through time In Espace at > c, otherwise you can't solve the Pioneer 10 anomaly. Hubble data shows the universe is accelerating. Therefore it is clearly not moving at constant speed.
[snip]
A.
> John Polasek > If you have something to say, write an equation. > If you have nothing to say, write an essay John C. Polasek - 26 Jan 2005 15:39 GMT >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:17:33 +0000, Richard Herring ><junk@[127.0.0.1]> >> wrote: SNIP
>> >Does it make testable predictions? >> Read my paper at http://www.dualspace.net. Read it and study it. It's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >[snip] Unauthorized snip, Aaron. Why would you cut the following from my message when it directly impacts your next objection:
"I point out for example on page 8 where the Pound Rebka redshift test is in trouble, the relativity mathematics leading to a double redshift. That's because a clock in the well would radiate slow by z, the photon at the top would be fatigued by another z, and then read by a clock with a rate of 1, for a total shift of 2z, using the assumption of constant c. With Dual Space, the ray starts slow from the well, does not change frequency or energy on the way up, but c increases out of the well, stretching the wavelength once for a 1-z shift."
It directly contradicts your next statement about energy falling in gravity. Look at the text: if energy of the photon is reduced climbing out of the well, then the computed redshift will be double the proper value. In Dual Space the energy of the photon is unaffected by gravity, retaining its original value up to the top, the increase in c giving it a 1z redshift.
>> Dual Space also implies that energy does not fall in gravity, whereas >> in relativity mass and energy are held interchangeable. You really [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >gravitational field. This has been tested to better than three parts in >one trillion accuracy. I would appreciate a citation on that. The Pound Rebka and Brault experiments have no less than a 5% uncertainty. Please describe the method. You should realize of course that energy is always merely a derived quantity as a scalar product, so it can't really be measured, especially to 3 parts in a trillion.
>> Here's a falsifiable prediction: there is about a 10% difference in >> the summation of velocities on page 6. If you had read any of it you >> would be crowing about it. Have somebody test it. > >Show me an experiment where the velocity agrees with your theory. There >are a great many that agree with relativity. This is clearly a very difficult experiment to expect any precision, and any experiments will of course be viewed through the prism of relativity because "that's all there is" and of course that's all that could possibly be. Can you cite experimental data that can prove the relativity formula within a few percent?
>> Here's another one: DS shows how E = mc2 in two steps (read about it >> in Eq. 8) so that total energy is always 1/2mc2 as in Eq. 9. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >This statement makes no sense. No, because this is new physics and because I am compressing several chapters of development into a paragraph. Our universe came not from a Big Bang, but by extraction of electrons from the quantum vacuum. Our sensation of time comes from the universe moving at c through the QV.
>> Here's another one: our universe is flying through time In Espace at >> c, otherwise you can't solve the Pioneer 10 anomaly. > >Hubble data shows the universe is accelerating. Therefore it is clearly >not moving at constant speed. We both know the Hubble constant has a wide error band since its derived from luminosities of galaxies at unknown distances. It is not clear that it is accelerating. I think that claim is a temporary patch.
>[snip] Why not read the website, study it a little and you might be pleasantly (or just as good, unpleasantly) surprised.
>A. > >> John Polasek John Polasek
|
|
|