Basics Series I: NEWTON, MAXWELL, EINSTEIN HOAXES - REVEALED!
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PDraper - 05 Feb 2005 11:20 GMT I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein were either fools or hucksters. ================================ Point 1: The sun is clearly red in the morning and undeniably red in the evening, but there is no such red-shifting visible at noon. This is because the sun at noon is directly overhead and passing horizontally over the face of the earth from east to west. There is no component of the sun's velocity at noon that is pointing toward the earth (except possibly at the spring equinox, when the sun is approaching the earth to make it warmer, but that's a small effect that will be ignored here). There is thus no red-shifting at noon.
In the morning, the sun is approaching the earth from the east with velocity v. Thus, the speed of light coming from the sun is c+v. For a wave, (wave speed) = (frequency) x (wavelength). Since the wave speed is higher, and the frequency is the same, the wavelength must go up. Longer wavelength means a shift to the red.
In the evening, the sun is receding from the earth toward the west with velocity v. Thus, the speed of light coming from the sun is c-v. Since the wave speed is lower, and the wavelength is the same, the frequency must go down. Lower frequency means a shift to the red.
And it is patently obvious that the sun can only emit one kind of light, red-shifted or not red-shifted, and that all observers on Earth must see the same sun at any given time. Thus, when it is red, it is red for all observers. It is apparent to any but the most childish mind that this implies that the earth is indeed flat.
Furthermore, this model is supported by experimental evidence, published on the Internet at http://www.google.com/search?q=+androc1es+actual+data
Einstein and Maxwell would have us believe that c is a constant, when there is daily evidence that it is not. They were hucksters and egregious hoaxes, and they've suckered four generations of scientists to their corrupt thinking.
================================ Point 2: The notion that sub-atomic particles can be either particles or waves, the so-called Heisenberg particle-wave duality, is nothing more than a scheme to make struggling students dizzy and question their own intelligence.
Moreover, Gregor Mendel's periodic table of the elements is needlessly complicated, saying that all things are made of 114 different kinds of atoms. Why 114? Why has the Standard Model no explanation for the arbitrary parameter 114.
My theory, crafted in decades of thinking in the back booth at the Lazy Q Diner, is much simpler in concept and in calculation. In essence (though it may be difficult for some to grasp at first), all things are made of fundamental particles that correspond to the kind of object it is. There is a one-to-one correspondence between objects and fundamental particles that comprise them. This resolves particle-wave duality neatly. Water is made from waterons, which are clearly waves, because otherwise there would be no way water could make waves at the beach. Billiard-balls are made of ballons, which are clearly particles, because otherwise billiard balls would not collide on the pool table the way they do. There are more complicated examples of objects which can collide but also exhibit the wave behavior of passing through each other. For example, SUVons and white-tailed deerons exhibit true particle-wave duality in collisions.
The simplicity of this model explains why the Standard Model is nothing but a fabrication with more arbitrary parameters than one can hold in the head.
================================ Point 3: Light is neither a particle or a wave. Any uncorrupted child can tell you light is a ray. Turn on a flashlight. Can waves cause shadows or travel in straight lines? I think not. Does all the light come out of a flashlight in bursts, or is it a continuous beam? I think the latter.
Double-slit interference is caused by shadows of light rays impinging on the aether (made of aetherons) in the slits.
The photoelectric effect is caused by excitation of aetherons which, when energized by a light ray, strike the surface of a metal and eject an electron.
Light is a ray. It can not be a bullet-like photon. It cannot be a lapping wave. A bullet gun goes "Bang. Bang." A wave gun would go "Whoosh, Whoosh." A ray gun goes "Bzzzzzzt!"
QED. ================================
Further details of this theory will be available soon on the Internet, and have been submitted for publication (at the recommendation of a Mr. Seto) to the prestigious journal Brake Fluid Quarterly.
PD
Eric Gisse - 05 Feb 2005 11:36 GMT This is not Paul's writing. Anyway...
> I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, Maxwell, and > Einstein were either fools or hucksters. It is always interesting to see how great scientists who are [or not yet!] proven wrong were fools or hucksters. It simply must not be possible for them to have done the best they could with the data they had. Damn Newton for not unifying relativity and quantum mechanics before either existed!
I predict this "fundamentals of a new theory" will contain math that is no more complicated than something I can find in a developmental math class. Namely algebra, perhaps trig, no calculus, and definatly nothing that involves complex numbers of linear algebra.
[snip]
Dirk Van de moortel - 05 Feb 2005 11:47 GMT > I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, > Maxwell, and Einstein were either fools or hucksters. [snip]
> Further details of this theory will be available soon on the Internet, and > have been submitted for publication (at the recommendation of a Mr. > Seto) to the prestigious journal Brake Fluid Quarterly. > > PD Good one, Paul :-) Your first point is made of steel.
Do not forget to post this every two weeks :-)
Dirk Vdm
Too many kooks spoil the brothel - 05 Feb 2005 11:50 GMT All we need now is a theory to explain why the sky is blue-shifted ...
Paul B. Andersen - 06 Feb 2005 22:02 GMT > All we need now is a theory to explain why the sky is blue-shifted ... But that's obvious! The reason why the light from distant galaxies is red shifted is that the photons interact with intergalactic particles and transfer energy to them, and thus the photons slow down. The photons from the Sun interact with the air molecules (Rayleigh scattering). But since the Earth is orbiting the Sun with the speed v, the photons will in this case GAIN speed (the slingshot effect) and hit our eyes with the speed c+v.
The fact that the sky is blue is thus a proof that the ballistic theory is OBVIOUSLY true.
The ballistic theory can explain everything!
Paulisticus
Richard Schultz - 07 Feb 2005 05:47 GMT In sci.physics.particle Paul B. Andersen <paul.b.andersen@deletethishia.no> wrote:
: The fact that the sky is blue is thus a proof that : the ballistic theory is OBVIOUSLY true. : : The ballistic theory can explain everything! Can it explain why the sky is falling?
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Androcles - 07 Feb 2005 05:55 GMT > In sci.physics.particle Paul B. Andersen > <paul.b.andersen@deletethishia.no> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Can it explain why the sky is falling? Of course. There are no props to hold it up. Androcles.
> ----- > Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ----- > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel - 09 Feb 2005 10:52 GMT > > In sci.physics.particle Paul B. Andersen > > <paul.b.andersen@deletethishia.no> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Of course. There are no props to hold it up. > Androcles. Drat! And I thought it was because it was attracted to my beeee-yooooo-tiful face.
> > ----- > > Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ----- > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." Androcles - 09 Feb 2005 20:01 GMT >> > In sci.physics.particle Paul B. Andersen >> > <paul.b.andersen@deletethishia.no> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Drat! And I thought it was because it was attracted to my > beeee-yooooo-tiful face. Push your beautiful face into this, then:
"It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics--as usually understood at the present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. Take, for example, the reciprocal electrodynamic action of a magnet and a conductor. The observable phenomenon here depends only on the relative motion of the conductor and the magnet, whereas the customary view draws a sharp distinction between the two cases in which either the one or the other of these bodies is in motion. For if the magnet is in motion and the conductor at rest, there arises in the neighbourhood of the magnet an electric field with a certain definite energy, producing a current at the places where parts of the conductor are situated. But if the magnet is stationary and the conductor in motion, no electric field arises in the neighbourhood of the magnet. In the conductor, however, we find an electromotive force, to which in itself there is no corresponding energy, but which gives rise--assuming equality of relative motion in the two cases discussed--to electric currents of the same path and intensity as those produced by the electric forces in the former case." --Einstein. http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
It is known that Einstein's electrodynamics--as usually understood at the present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. Take, for example, the reciprocal electrodynamic action of a magnet and a conductor. The observable phenomenon here depends only on the relative motion of the conductor and the magnet, whereas the relativistic view draws a sharp distinction between the two cases in which either the one or the other of these bodies is in motion. For if the magnet approaches the coil at 'v' and the coil approaches the magnet at 'u', the induced current will be proportional to (u+v)/( c+ uv/c) < (u+v), which will NOT give rise--assuming equality of relative motion in the two cases discussed--to electric currents of the same path and intensity as those produced by the electric forces in the former case. -- Androcles.
"the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured in the stationary system, with the velocity c-v" - Einstein. http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
c-v sounds ballistic to me...
Androcles.
Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel - 10 Feb 2005 11:09 GMT > >> > In sci.physics.particle Paul B. Andersen > >> > <paul.b.andersen@deletethishia.no> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Push your beautiful face into this, then: Fun time!!
> "It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics--as usually understood at > the present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > "the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured in
> the stationary system, with the velocity c-v" - Einstein. > http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/ > > c-v sounds ballistic to me... > > Androcles. Lady Chatterly - 10 Feb 2005 13:43 GMT >in >> message news:1107946350.475736.310460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Fun time!! It is a bunch of horseshit.
-- Lady Chatterly
"An automated response program that is similar to an artificial intelligence." -- Gunner
Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel - 17 Feb 2005 16:18 GMT > >in > >> message news:1107946350.475736.310460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > It is a bunch of horseshit. Whatever turns you on.
> -- > Lady Chatterly > > "An automated response program that is similar to an artificial > intelligence." -- Gunner Lady Chatterly - 17 Feb 2005 17:09 GMT >> >> "Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" <brightice2001@yahoo.co.uk> >wrote [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Whatever turns you on. He is.
-- Lady Chatterly
"'debate' with 'Lady Chatterly' now that is a JOKE!!!!!!!! *ROFLMAO*" -- Philip Lewis
Ron Poteet - 17 Feb 2005 17:22 GMT Dear Sir,
For over thirty years I've been studying the unresolved questions in physics. Each time a new question appears it adds a new hint to the unresolved issues of physics. A few months ago while I was reading a book on the history of the square root of minus one I had an incredible moment of insight; during that moment the room that I was sitting in turned blue, I experienced an incredible feeling of excitement and euphoria. It was a moment of absolute clarity and certainty. I thought for a moment that I was having a stroke. But after a period of about five seconds I realized that I had discovered the answer to the problems which had intrigued me for so long: that answer was that matter, energy and time has multiple dimensions!
I worked on it for a couple of sleepless weeks and developed a complete and concise theory which I call MEAT, for Matter, Energy And Time; the MEAT of physics. Simply put the theory is as follows: "Matter, energy and time are conserved quantities. They exist in multiple dimensions. All matter moves as matter waves of energy in imaginary dimensions of time. Particles of mass are stationary and exist in a real dimension of time."
That's it. Of course, between the lines of those few short sentences is a lot of new physics.
Let's start with the conservation of time: if time were not conserved we would have run out of it a long time ago. We wouldn't exit and neither would the cosmos without the conservation of time. Interestingly, it's the first question that occurs to a young student studying relativity, what's happened to the rest of time? The answer is that it goes into wave motion, and as such, it conserves time. An interesting side to this is that for ensemble averaging to equal time averaging, time must be conserved. The proof of this relation has not been possible until now. Matter, energy and time are so tightly bound together that one cannot exist without the other, and if one is conserved so must the others. Each conserved form of energy exists in its own orthogonal imaginary dimension of time. And each form of energy (linear motion, angular motion and random thermal motion, etc.) must be accounted for in the time dilation of particles in real time. That is why time is conserved.
The conservation of matter means that the energy required to convert a stationary particle to a wave of energy must transfer to another particle within the object when the wave converts back to its particle after displacement. Particles quit converting only when that energy is removed from the object.
The conservation laws requires that a fixed (or at least what the matter sees as being fixed) frame of reference must exist. This obviously spells doom for inertial frames of reference in relativity.. This refrence frame is most likely to be composed of strings.
>> >> "Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" <brightice2001@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> "An automated response program that is similar to an artificial >> intelligence." -- Gunner PD - 18 Feb 2005 14:33 GMT > Dear Sir, > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > >> "An automated response program that is similar to an artificial > >> intelligence." -- Gunner OK, now I understand why it's so hard to recognize satire in this forum.
PD
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) - 18 Feb 2005 15:17 GMT Dear PD:
>> Dear Sir, ...
>> the history of the square root of minus one I had an >> incredible moment of insight; during that moment the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> intrigued me for so long: that answer was that matter, >> energy and time has multiple dimensions! ...
> OK, now I understand why it's so hard to recognize > satire in this forum. Did the room turn blue when you realized this?
David A. Smith
PD - 18 Feb 2005 15:33 GMT > Dear PD: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > David A. Smith No, but it spun a little when I inhaled my orange juice while reading Ron's post. However, I quickly realized the local equivalence between the acceleration and the gravity of Ron's state. Einstein saved my butt once again.
PD
Sam Wormley - 05 Feb 2005 12:10 GMT > The sun is clearly red in the morning and undeniably red in the evening, but > there is no such red-shifting visible at noon. This is because the sun at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > when the sun is approaching the earth to make it warmer, but that's a small > effect that will be ignored here). There is thus no red-shifting at noon. SOHO data shows this is not the case http://umbra.nascom.nasa.gov/images/latest.html http://www.edu-observatory.org/eo/sun.html
Androcles - 05 Feb 2005 15:26 GMT >I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, Maxwell, [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] > > PD A standing wave has both frequency and wavelength. Since c = f * w, the speed of a standing wave is c.
Androcles.
PD - 06 Feb 2005 14:21 GMT > >I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the > > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, Maxwell, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > at > > noon is directly overhead and passing horizontally over the face of
> > the > > earth from east to west. There is no component of the sun's velocity [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > small > > effect that will be ignored here). There is thus no red-shifting at
> > noon. > > > > In the morning, the sun is approaching the earth from the east with
> > velocity > > v. Thus, the speed of light coming from the sun is c+v. For a wave, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > there > > is daily evidence that it is not. They were hucksters and egregious
> > hoaxes, > > and they've suckered four generations of scientists to their corrupt [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > that > > comprise them. This resolves particle-wave duality neatly. Water is
> > made > > from waterons, which are clearly waves, because otherwise there would > > be no > > way water could make waves at the beach. Billiard-balls are made of
> > ballons, > > which are clearly particles, because otherwise billiard balls would
> > not > > collide on the pool table the way they do. There are more complicated [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > and > > have been submitted for publication (at the recommendation of a Mr.
> > Seto) to > > the prestigious journal Brake Fluid Quarterly. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Androcles. The action of gravity acting on a baseball in flight has both a force F and a radius (from the center of the earth) of r. Since torque T = F * r, then the torque due to gravity on the baseball is T. Which is why there are curveballs.
PD
Androcles - 06 Feb 2005 20:00 GMT >> >I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the >> > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, [quoted text clipped - 171 lines] > > PD Since the time in the moving frame at x' is given by the fuction tau(x',0,0,t+x'/(c-v)), what is the value of tau(x',0,0,0) and tau(0,0,0,0)?
Androcles.
Androcles - 06 Feb 2005 22:46 GMT >>> >I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which replaces the >>> > so-called Standard Model, and which demonstrates that Newton, [quoted text clipped - 189 lines] > tau(x',0,0,t+x'/(c-v)), what is the value of tau(x',0,0,0) and > tau(0,0,0,0)?
> Androcles. Oops. I meant to ask What is the time difference between tau(x',0,0,0) and tau(0,0,0,0) ?
Androcles.
The Ghost In The Machine - 05 Feb 2005 20:00 GMT In sci.physics, PDraper <pdraper@yahoo.com> wrote on Sat, 05 Feb 2005 06:20:00 -0500 <BE2A1610.2BB6%pdraper@yahoo.com>:
> I am laying out the fundamentals of a new theory which > replaces the so-called Standard Model, and which [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Since the wave speed is higher, and the frequency is the same, the > wavelength must go up. Longer wavelength means a shift to the red. [rest snipped]
In case it hasn't occurred to you, you're ignoring a number of issues, just in these first two paragraphs. I'm not going to even scan the rest.
[1] The Earth *is* approaching and receding from the Sun, as the perihelion and aphelion of the Earth's orbit are 1.475 * 10^11 m and 1.526 * 10^11 m (0.983 to 1.017 AU), but the relativistic correction is ridiculously small, even were the light source parked on the Earth's orbit and the Earth hurtling toward it at a velocity of 30 km/s = 10^-4 c! [*] (The gamma factor is 1/sqrt(1 - (10^-4)^2) = 1 + 5*10^-9.) The rotation of the Earth does bring the sun closer at a velocity of about 232 m/s on the equator but that's only 7.73 * 10^-6 c.
[2] Approaching = blueshift; receding = redshift. Why isn't a sunrise a beautiful azure color? The atmosphere is the primary cause of the color of the Sun, to the extent that the Sun sets about 8 minutes later than it should because it becomes a lens or prism of gigantic proportions, bending the light beams. The blue light, of course, scatters across the sky -- there's the azure component. :-)
[3] The variations in [1] are also rather small in establishing seasonal variations; the tilt (23.5 degrees or so) of the axis exhibits a far more relevant effect. The tilt is minimum in the summer, which leads to the slightly anomalous but nevertheless correct result that we're farthest away when the weather is warmest, at least in the northern hemisphere.
[4] Light in SR is always c, no matter where you are and what you are doing. Swim in free space or stand on the surface of a black hole (if that's even possible!), it wouldn't make any difference. However, the free space observer will see longer wavelengths, if both are observing the same light source.
[5] The blues have higher frequences and shorter wavelengths, so you've got that more or less right, at least. 700 nm = 429 THz = red, 400 nm = 750 THz = blue. (1 THz = 10^12 cycles per second.) However, the issues in light are roughly analogous to train whistles; an approaching source bunches up the waves, resulting in shorter (and higher energy) wavelengths. SR doesn't attempt to differentiate a 400 nm bluelight wave coming from a source broadcasting at 400 nm, and a 400 nm bluelight wave coming from a source broadcasting at 500 nm and accelerating towards the observer at .2 c (if one uses Newtonian), .6 c (Einsteinian).
[6] The Standard Model is primarily concerned with particle physics, although it has some very interesting applications (e.g., the theoretical computations might be useful in estimating what happens when a star blows up). Replacing it is possible but extremely problematic; a large number of experiments are on record which would have to be explained.
* * *
[*] If we can launch it properly, an interesting -- although slightly pointless -- experiment would have a counterrotating satellite whizzing by the Earth's orbit at approximately 2 * 10^-4 c. It would have to be a small satellite, probably launched during local noontime and consigned to an orbit slightly inside Earth's own. The gamma corrective factor would be on the order of 1 + 2*10^-8 -- which should be easy to measure. Of course we've already verified various subtle GR effects by bouncing radar waves off Venus, making this particular experiment generally redundant.
 Signature #191, ewill3@earthlink.net It's still legal to go .sigless.
jem - 05 Feb 2005 22:38 GMT > In sci.physics, PDraper > <pdraper@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > off Venus, making this particular experiment > generally redundant. Brilliant analysis. You thoroughly debunked the first part of his new theory. Why don't you show hime what's wrong the other parts too? I'm sure he'll appreciate it. I know I will.
Tom Capizzi - 06 Feb 2005 01:59 GMT >> In sci.physics, PDraper >> <pdraper@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > theory. Why don't you show hime what's wrong the other parts too? I'm > sure he'll appreciate it. I know I will. Is everybody in on the gag, or do you people actually think PD was serious?
Laurel Amberdine - 06 Feb 2005 02:14 GMT >>> In sci.physics, PDraper >>> <pdraper@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>>>Since the wave speed is higher, and the frequency is the same, the >>>>wavelength must go up. Longer wavelength means a shift to the red. <snip>
>>> [1] The Earth *is* approaching and receding from the Sun, >>> as the perihelion and aphelion of the Earth's orbit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> does bring the sun closer at a velocity of about 232 >>> m/s on the equator but that's only 7.73 * 10^-6 c. <snip>
>> Brilliant analysis. You thoroughly debunked the first part of his new >> theory. Why don't you show hime what's wrong the other parts too? I'm >> sure he'll appreciate it. I know I will. > > Is everybody in on the gag, or do you people actually think PD > was serious? Pfui. Look at those well-formed sentences, full of rational punctutation and correctly spelled words. You don't think they're really fooling anyone?
Have to try harder next time, guys. :)
 Signature - Laurel * * * http://www.livejournal.com/users/amberdine
Androcles - 06 Feb 2005 03:09 GMT >>>> In sci.physics, PDraper >>>> <pdraper@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Have to try harder next time, guys. :) Hmmm.... if tau(x',0,0, x'/(c-v)) is the time light reflects from the mirror, what time is it at (x,0,0,0)?
Androcles
PD - 06 Feb 2005 13:44 GMT > >> In sci.physics, PDraper > >> <pdraper@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > Is everybody in on the gag, or do you people actually think PD > was serious? The response is telling, isn't it? Says a lot about the nature of the group.
PD
jem - 06 Feb 2005 15:22 GMT >>"jem" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > > PD The two of you are criticizing the ability of others to recognize satire? :)
Androcles - 06 Feb 2005 20:09 GMT >>>"jem" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > The two of you are criticizing the ability of others to recognize > satire? :) Err.... yes.
Androcles
PD - 06 Feb 2005 20:53 GMT > >>"jem" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > The two of you are criticizing the ability of others to recognize > satire? :) Criticizing? Hardly. But it does say that it's difficult to separate honestly ignorant clap-trap from willfully obnoxious clap-trap from satirical clap-trap, at least in this venue.
PD
Dirk Van de moortel - 06 Feb 2005 21:04 GMT [snip]
> > >>Is everybody in on the gag, or do you people actually think PD > > >>was serious? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > clap-trap from willfully obnoxious clap-trap from satirical clap-trap, > at least in this venue. I really liked yours. You should have used another name though :-)
Dirk Vdm
PD - 06 Feb 2005 21:29 GMT > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dirk Vdm The fact that I didn't, and still got the reaction I did, is what is interesting. Thanks. PD
Eric Gisse - 07 Feb 2005 03:12 GMT [snip]
> > I really liked yours. > > You should have used another name though :-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks. > PD My knee is still sore from the jerk.
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