Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal? I
mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
problems of a theory that was inherently flawed as he put it?
La Violette said:
"The energy summation of all virtual particles momentarily
existing around a Particle also poses a problem since quantum
field theory predicts that a given virtual Particle cloud should
have an infinitely large mass. For example, in creating each
virtual photon the electron is assumed to "borrow" energy from
the uncertainty relation "bank.' Although this energy is assumed
to be "paid back" shortly thereafter to avoid violating the law
of energy conservation, there would always be a net reservoir of
virtual photon energy in the electron's photon cloud. When the
individual packets of energy associated with each virtual photon
are added up, however, the energy (and mass) of the electron
together with its virtual particle cloud is found to be infinite.
This blatantly contradicts experimental observation that shows
the electron as having a finite rest mass, whose energy
equivalent amounts to 510,000 electron volts.*
Physicists have attempted to resolve this difficulty through a
process called renormalization, or the ad hoc assumption that the
"bare" electron core has an infinite negative mass of just the
right amount to cancel out most of the infinite positive mass of
the electron's photon cloud and leave a net positive residual
equivalent to the electron~s observed mass. Further complicating
matters, this ad hoc finely tuned renormalization procedure must
be repeated for each force field that a particle is presumed to
generate, since the clouds of virtual pions, gluons, and other
particles required to mediate strong and weak forces and quark
binding would similarly produce singularities. Many physicists
find this technique unsatisfactory, since there is no reason to
justify the infinite negative mass assumption other than the
purported need to patch up the failing quantum electrodynamics
theory. Paul Dirac, a famous British physicist known for his 1928
pred iction of the existence of antimatter, played an important
role in developing the foundations of quantum electrodynamics.
But throughout his life he expressed his displeasure with the
business of renormalization. He felt it was no more than a poorly
executed attempt to sweep under the carpet problems of a theory
that was inherently flawed."
FrediFizzx - 18 Feb 2005 03:20 GMT
| Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal? I
| mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
| problems of a theory that was inherently flawed as he put it?
Is an electron forever? Does it ever "wind down"? What the heck are
you going to do with something that has infinite or near infinite
energy?
FrediFizzx
Picti - 18 Feb 2005 03:29 GMT
Quantum Electrodynamics is the most accurate physical theory ever
produced, but it is philosophically dissatisfying. However, when it
comes to infinite energy, compared to what? There is no bronze arrow
with a zero at one end and an 'E' at the other floating in space. One
is free to set zero anywhere. One is free to choose the zero point
energy at a population of 1/2 quanta per radiation mode of space --
half the time the population is 1, the other half its 0 -- cancelling
out the infinity, that is the renormalized gauge transformation.
Bjoern Feuerbacher - 18 Feb 2005 10:10 GMT
> Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal?
Read what Wilson wrote on that.
> I mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
> problems of a theory that was inherently flawed as he put it?
No.
> La Violette said:
>
> "The energy summation
What's that supposed to mean?
> of all virtual particles momentarily
> existing around a Particle also poses a problem since quantum
> field theory predicts that a given virtual Particle cloud should
> have an infinitely large mass.
Vaguely right.
> For example, in creating each
> virtual photon the electron is assumed to "borrow" energy from
> the uncertainty relation "bank.'
Wrong. Energy is conserved at every vertex.
> Although this energy is assumed
> to be "paid back" shortly thereafter to avoid violating the law
> of energy conservation, there would always be a net reservoir of
> virtual photon energy in the electron's photon cloud.
Energy which the electron has essentially lost when creating the
virtual photon. No "borrowing" involved.
> When the
> individual packets of energy associated with each virtual photon
> are added up, however, the energy (and mass) of the electron
> together with its virtual particle cloud is found to be infinite.
Vaguely right.
> This blatantly contradicts experimental observation that shows
> the electron as having a finite rest mass, whose energy
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the electron's photon cloud and leave a net positive residual
> equivalent to the electron~s observed mass.
Vaguely right.
The most egregious error here is that this procedure is not "ad hoc",
but that there are good arguments why it has to be done in this way,
why this is sensible, and why it works. Again, see Wilson's work.
> Further complicating
> matters, this ad hoc finely tuned renormalization procedure must
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> binding would similarly produce singularities. Many physicists
> find this technique unsatisfactory,
Then they haven't read Wilson's work, or did not understand it.
> since there is no reason to
> justify the infinite negative mass assumption other than the
> purported need to patch up the failing quantum electrodynamics
> theory.
Wrong. There are indeed such reasons.
> Paul Dirac, a famous British physicist known for his 1928
> prediction of the existence of antimatter, played an important
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> executed attempt to sweep under the carpet problems of a theory
> that was inherently flawed."
Argument from authority attempted...
Bye,
Bjoern
Franz Heymann - 18 Feb 2005 14:21 GMT
> Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal? I
> mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
> problems of a theory that was inherently flawed as he put it?
>
> La Violette said:
If you don't stop parrotting La Violette. I'll puke.
[snip]
For example, in creating each
> virtual photon the electron is assumed to "borrow" energy from
> the uncertainty relation "bank.'
No. The creation and annihilation of virtual particles obey energy
and momentum conservation quite strictly. The only unusual feature of
such processes is that the virtual particle does not have the same
mass as the corresponding free particle.
[snip]

Signature
Franz
One Galileo in 2000 years is enough. Pope Pius XII
kenseto - 18 Feb 2005 15:33 GMT
> Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal? I
> mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> executed attempt to sweep under the carpet problems of a theory
> that was inherently flawed."
You are right. Paul Dirac's comment:
"I must say that I am very dissatisfied with the situation because this
so-called 'good theory' does involve neglecting infinities which appaear in
its equations, neglecting them in an arbitrary way. This is just not
sensible mathematics. Sensible mathematics involves neglecting a quantity
when it turns out to be small"
Model Mechanics posits that the charge of a particle does not reside within
the particle. It is the distortion that the orbiting S-Particle created in
the E-Matrix. This means that the infinities were never there in the first
place. That's the reason why the renormalization procedure work.
Ken Seto
Eugene Stefanovich - 18 Feb 2005 19:54 GMT
> Is anyone having problems believing renormalization is normal? I
> mean. Could it be "doctored" or sweeping under the carpet
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> executed attempt to sweep under the carpet problems of a theory
> that was inherently flawed."
I share Dirac's displeasure, and I have a solution of this paradox.
In my view, the problem is that we just picked
wrong Hamiltonians for our QFT
theories. Renormalization is an awkward attempt to remedy the
deficiencies of the Hamiltonians. Renormalization does produce
the correct S-matrix, but the presence of infinite counterterms
(=infinite masses and charges of bare particles) makes the Hamiltonian
of the renormalized theory unusable for calculations of the time
evolution and wavefunctions of bound states.
This problem can be fixed by the "dressing transformation" of the
Hamiltonian. This transformation does not affect predictions of the
theory regarding the S-matrix, but the Hamiltonian becomes finite,
and divergent integrals never show up. You can find the details
in my online book www.meopemuk.com/book.pdf.
There is also a couple of papers posted on www.geocities.com/meopemuk.
Regards.
Eugene Stefanovich.
hdr - 20 Feb 2005 18:54 GMT
Contents,
1. Give up "point" particles
2. A solution of Maxwell's equations for the proton mass
3. Energy flow, particle structure and Maxwell's equations
4. Rods, Clocks and plumb bobs
http://www.lafn.org/~bd261
Roland Dishington