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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Particle Physics / August 2005



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A new discovery regarding spin

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Golden Boar - 27 Aug 2005 06:31 GMT
We can calculate spin using the following equation:

|sv| = sqrt(s(s + 1)) * hbar

where,

sv is the quantized spin vector,
|sv| is the norm of the spin vector,
s is the spin quantum number, which can be any non negative integer,

Given an arbitrary direction z (usually determined by an external
magnetic field) the spin z-projection is given by

Sz = ms.hbar

ms is the secondary spin quantum number, ranging from -s to +s in steps
of 1. This generates 2s+1 different values of ms.

The above is from wiki, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_quantum_number

Why should only non-negative values be allowed?

If we allow negative values, we get the following results.

s = 2, s+1 = 3, sv = 2.583162537E-34
s = 1.5, s+1 = 2.5, sv = 2.042169296E-34
s = 1, s+1 = 2, sv = 1.491389586E-34
s = 0.5, s+1 = 1.5, sv = 9.132858735E-35
s = 0, s+1 = 1, sv = 0
s = -0.5, s+1 = 0.5, sv = -5.272858449E-35
s = -1, s+1 = 0, sv = 0
s = -1.5, s+1 = -0.5, sv = 9.132858735E-35
s = -2, s+1 = -1, sv = 1.491389586E-34
s = -2.5, s+1 = -1.5, sv = 2.042169296E-34
s = -3, s+1 = -2, sv = 2.583162537E-34

As you can see, the origin is not s=0 but s=-0.5.
You can also see that the table is symmetric in regards to sv.
The table also shows the following:

For a spin -1/2 particle, s=-0.5, diff = 0
For a spin 0 particle, s=0 and s=-1, diff = 1
For an electron, s=0.5 and s=-1.5, diff = 2
For a photon, s=1 and s=-2, diff = 3
For a spin 3/2 particle, s=1.5 and s=-2.5, diff = 4
For a spin 2 particle, s=2 and s=-3, diff = 5

You should also notice that for the origin(s=-0.5):

sv = -(hbar/2)
Sz = +/-(hbar/2)

Since spin is given in terms of hbar/2, I think this highly
significant.

Any feedback welcome.
Nick - 27 Aug 2005 06:34 GMT
What maintains the spin?

As if I don't know!!!
Golden Boar - 27 Aug 2005 06:43 GMT
Well, I dont know, so maybe you can tell me.
Nick - 27 Aug 2005 07:27 GMT
I believe it is time moving maintaining all motions!!!

Something is spinning the atoms continuously.
Bjoern Feuerbacher - 27 Aug 2005 13:57 GMT
> We can calculate spin using the following equation:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Why should only non-negative values be allowed?

Look up the derivation of the formulas above in a book on Quantum
Mechanics, then you'll know.

> If we allow negative values, we get the following results.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> s = -2.5, s+1 = -1.5, sv = 2.042169296E-34
> s = -3, s+1 = -2, sv = 2.583162537E-34

First, sv is a vector, not a single number, so your third column
in this table makes no sense. Second, if you meant |sv|, not
sv, in this third column, then the value for s=-0.5 makes no
sense, since |sv| is by construction always *positive*.

[snip remainder]

Bye,
Bjoern
Golden Boar - 27 Aug 2005 20:18 GMT
> > We can calculate spin using the following equation:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> Bye,
> Bjoern

The third column is:
sv = sqrt(s * (s+1)) * hbar

I dont know what you mean by "not a single number", and why do you
think the third column makes no sense. Are you trying to say the
equation is wrong?
the softrat - 28 Aug 2005 05:19 GMT
>The third column is:
>sv = sqrt(s * (s+1)) * hbar
>
>I dont know what you mean by "not a single number", and why do you
>think the third column makes no sense. Are you trying to say the
>equation is wrong?

How about 'grossly misapplied'. The equation is for the total
magnitude of the spin vector. ¿Comprende vector?

the softrat
Sometimes I get so tired of the taste of my own toes.
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
Almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
-- Steven Wright
Golden Boar - 28 Aug 2005 06:27 GMT
> >The third column is:
> >sv = sqrt(s * (s+1)) * hbar
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
> -- Steven Wright

A vector has magnitude and direction.

If,

s = 0.5, |sv| = 9.132858735E-35
s = 0, |sv| = 0
s = -0.5, |sv| = 5.272858449E-35 = hbar/2
s = -1, sv = 0
s = -1.5, |sv| = 9.132858735E-35

Wheres the problem here?
the softrat - 28 Aug 2005 07:26 GMT
>A vector has magnitude and direction.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Wheres the problem here?

You need three numbers to specify direction in normal space and 's' is
not one of them. You are three numbers short of a full load.

the softrat
Sometimes I get so tired of the taste of my own toes.
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
Software isn't released. It's allowed to escape.
Golden Boar - 28 Aug 2005 08:25 GMT
> >A vector has magnitude and direction.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> --
> Software isn't released. It's allowed to escape.

I dont understand what you are disagreing to here.

Are you trying to say the equation is wrong?
Are you trying to say that the equation needs 3 spatial dimensions?
PD - 30 Aug 2005 19:01 GMT
> We can calculate spin using the following equation:
>
> |sv| = sqrt(s(s + 1)) * hbar

One does not calculate spin from the following equation. One derives
that equation from understanding the physics of spin. Starting from
this equation and assuming that one can put any value for the variables
that makes naive sense, is like pumping gasoline through a fire hose
and then asking, "Why shouldn't this work just the same?"

Understand the equations to use them, don't use the equations to
understand them.

> where,
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Any feedback welcome.
 
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