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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Particle Physics / April 2006Timing (Not TiME) dilates.
$$ Tom [He between his error-bars] Roberts [GR BUFFY] wrote: > Standard clocks in GPS satellites do not remain in synch with > clocks on earth, by ~38us/day. > > > 3. Have any differences between clocks at different > > [elevations] locations on earth been observed with or > > without the geoid factor or are they in synch ? > > They have been observed, and the metrology folks take great pains > to keep them in synch. Paris, Greenwich, Washington DC, Boulder > CO, etc. must all correct for their height above the geoid, or > there are observable systematic drifts. -=- <shrug> -=- -=- > The actual formula one must use for accurately comparing clocks > is not just "time dilation". [See: GPS PREset & REset equation]. $$ Newtonian (GR) time dilation. $$ The EARth has an AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT which varies with rA. $$ The GPS PREset factor is rA AMBiENT density/r3 AMBiENT density. $$ [ Where, rA = r3 + Altitude (r3 is the *local* EARth radius) ]. $$ $$ Note pendulum PERiOD tbob & pendulum LENGTH lbob vary, with rA. $$ [ i.e. This WORKs ..especially, EVEN where there is NO orbit ]. $$ $$ G*M1 v1^2 4*(pi)^2*rA 4*(pi)^2*lbob vbob^2 $$ -- -- --- -- = ---- = -- -- -- -- = -- -- - -- -- = --- -- = g. $$ (n - 1)*rA^2 rA tA^2 tbob^2 lbob $$ $$ Note the pendulum LENGTH lbob varies with rA @ fixed v1 & vbob. $$ Note the pendulum PERiOD tbob varies with rA @ fixed v1 & vbob. $$ $$ This has NoTHiNG what-so-ever to do with GR, GTR, or GR Tivity. $$ [ Except, of course, the GR Coup claim NEWTONiAN predictions ]. $$ $$ Both GPS PREset & GPS REset depend on rA & r3 AMBiENT DENSiTYs. $$ [ Daily REsets are due since EARth "clock" isN'T in VLO @ r3 ]. $$ EARth's AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT varies ..along AVAGADRO's Law. $$ EARth's AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT varies ..with PAULi EXCLUSiON. > It comes from [Post-Einstein Coup] GR [ONLY the NEWTONiAN part], > and includes both motion [motion is UNnecessarily included] and > gravitation. [See: The GUESS iSS GPS PREset & REset equation]. Re: Very Low Orbit (VLO) where r = r3 ..EQUiVALENT local EARth r3. Re: EARth has an ELECTROMAGNETiC DENSiTY GRADiENT varying with rA. $$$$$$$ $$$$$$$ > > Tom [ GR BUFFY ] Roberts wrote: > >> In fact, such measurements _have_ been performed over many > >> years by comparing clocks located at various [ELEVATiONs] > >> countries' standards organizations (e.g. Greenwich, Paris, > >> Washington DC, Boulder CO, ...[elevations; i.e. ALTiTUDEs]). > >> The need to correct for the effects predicted by [ ..the OLD > >> NEWTONiAN g = 4*(pi)^2 lbob/tbob^2 PENDuLUM ALTiMETER "CLOCK"] > >> GR is well established to high accuracy. > >> This includes time dilation due to the earth's rotation > >> (reflected in the altitude of the geoid), and gravitational > >> redshift due to height above the geoid. $$ Coy GR Test-POiNT-mass. $$ [A GR TEST-mass (a GR POiNT-mass) canNOT have a BULGE]. $$ $$ A GR "geoid" REQUiREs the "mixing" of FRAMEs ..at ONCE. $$ [Theoretically, there was NO "geoid-POiNT-mass" in GR]. $$ $$ There is NO theoretical GR POiNT-mass of VARiOUS radii. > > Tom, I understand that you believe there are other factors > > involved in time dilation such as the geoid. > > That is not a "belief", that is an experimentally observed _fact_. $$ Yes. But it WAS NOT a FACT in ANY THEORETiCAL aspect, of GR. > > Does the geoid or some other fudge apply in the twin paradox ? > > The geoid is not a "fudge". And whether or not it applies to the > twin paradox depends on the physical situation being discussed > and the accuracy of measurement. > > > H&K compared their flying clocks with a stationary one in Denver. -=- > Your number is wrong. But yes, one must take into account both > motion and gravitation when comparing clocks accurately. <shrug> $$ NO. You *NEED* take into account ..*ONLY* the clock's ALTiTUDE. > > Have they ever reported time dilation differences > > Yes. You are supposed to read what I wrote (to which you are > responding). They must correct for altitude relative to the geoid, > and they do so all the time. <shrug> $$ Yes. But there is NO "POiNT-mass TEST-geoid" ..in GR Tivity. > > or does it only apply to theoreticals like the twin paradox? -=- > The twin paradox is not merely "theoretical" -- it has been > experimentally observed (see the FAQ: Bailley et al, Haefle and > Keating, and also C.Alley). $$ Utter NonSENSE. There was ABSOLUTELY no NEED of their "aeroplane". $$ Utter NonSENSE. There was ABSOLUTELY noTHiNG NEEDed except HEiGHT. $$ $$ A GR TEST-POiNT-mass canNOT HAVE VARiOUS radii, or Robert's BULGE. Re: Gravity=Anti-Buoyancy. ```Brian A M Stuckless, Ph.T (Tivity). Re: Timing (Not TiME) dilates. Re: Coy GR Test POiNT-mass. Re: Emit detect Dirac Sea h*fL=nA*hbar*c/rA. ..END of Re-POSTs. $$ Tom [He between his error-bars] Roberts [GR BUFFY] wrote: > Standard clocks in GPS satellites do not remain in synch with > clocks on earth, by ~38us/day. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > CO, etc. must all correct for their height above the geoid, or > there are observable systematic drifts. -=- <shrug> -=- -=- > The actual formula one must use for accurately comparing clocks > is not just "time dilation". [See: GPS PREset & REset equation]. $$ Newtonian (GR) time dilation. $$ The EARth has an AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT which varies with rA. $$ The GPS PREset factor is rA AMBiENT density/r3 AMBiENT density. $$ [ Where, rA = r3 + Altitude (r3 is the *local* EARth radius) ]. $$ $$ Note pendulum PERiOD tbob & pendulum LENGTH lbob vary, with rA. $$ [ i.e. This WORKs ..especially, EVEN where there is NO orbit ]. $$ $$ G*M1 v1^2 4*(pi)^2*rA 4*(pi)^2*lbob vbob^2 $$ -- -- --- -- = ---- = -- -- -- -- = -- -- - -- -- = --- -- = g. $$ (n - 1)*rA^2 rA tA^2 tbob^2 lbob $$ $$ Note the pendulum LENGTH lbob varies with rA @ fixed v1 & vbob. $$ Note the pendulum PERiOD tbob varies with rA @ fixed v1 & vbob. $$ $$ This has NoTHiNG what-so-ever to do with GR, GTR, or GR Tivity. $$ [ Except, of course, the GR Coup claim NEWTONiAN predictions ]. $$ $$ Both GPS PREset & GPS REset depend on rA & r3 AMBiENT DENSiTYs. $$ [ Daily REsets are due since EARth "clock" isN'T in VLO @ r3 ]. $$ EARth's AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT varies ..along AVAGADRO's Law. $$ EARth's AMBiENT DENSiTY GRADiENT varies ..with PAULi EXCLUSiON. > It comes from [Post-Einstein Coup] GR [ONLY the NEWTONiAN part], > and includes both motion [motion is UNnecessarily included] and > gravitation. [See: The GUESS iSS GPS PREset & REset equation]. Re: Very Low Orbit (VLO) where r = r3 ..EQUiVALENT local EARth r3. Re: EARth has an ELECTROMAGNETiC DENSiTY GRADiENT varying with rA. $$$$$$$ $$$$$$$ > > Tom [ GR BUFFY ] Roberts wrote: > >> In fact, such measurements _have_ been performed over many > >> years by comparing clocks located at various [ELEVATiONs] > >> countries' standards organizations (e.g. Greenwich, Paris, > >> Washington DC, Boulder CO, ...[elevations; i.e. ALTiTUDEs]). > >> The need to correct for the effects predicted by [ ..the OLD > >> NEWTONiAN g = 4*(pi)^2 lbob/tbob^2 PENDuLUM ALTiMETER "CLOCK"] > >> GR is well established to high accuracy. > >> This includes time dilation due to the earth's rotation > >> (reflected in the altitude of the geoid), and gravitational > >> redshift due to height above the geoid. $$ Coy GR Test POiNT-mass. $$ [A GR TEST-mass (a GR POiNT-mass) canNOT have a BULGE]. $$ $$ A GR "geoid" REQUiREs the "mixing" of FRAMEs ..at ONCE. $$ [Theoretically, there was NO "geoid-POiNT-mass" in GR]. $$ $$ There is NO theoretical GR POiNT-mass of VARiOUS radii. > > Tom, I understand that you believe there are other factors > > involved in time dilation such as the geoid. > > That is not a "belief", that is an experimentally observed _fact_. $$ Yes. But it WAS NOT a FACT in ANY THEORETiCAL aspect, of GR. > > Does the geoid or some other fudge apply in the twin paradox ? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > H&K compared their flying clocks with a stationary one in Denver. -=- > Your number is wrong. But yes, one must take into account both > motion and gravitation when comparing clocks accurately. <shrug> $$ NO. You *NEED* take into account ..*ONLY* the clock's ALTiTUDE. > > Have they ever reported time dilation differences > > Yes. You are supposed to read what I wrote (to which you are > responding). They must correct for altitude relative to the geoid, > and they do so all the time. <shrug> $$ Yes. But there is NO "POiNT-mass TEST-geoid" ..in GR Tivity. > > or does it only apply to theoreticals like the twin paradox? -=- > The twin paradox is not merely "theoretical" -- it has been > experimentally observed (see the FAQ: Bailley et al, Haefle and > Keating, and also C.Alley). $$ Utter NonSENSE. There was ABSOLUTELY no NEED of their "aeroplane". $$ Utter NonSENSE. There was ABSOLUTELY noTHiNG NEEDed except HEiGHT. $$ $$ A GR TEST-POiNT-mass canNOT HAVE VARiOUS radii, or Robert's BULGE. Re: Gravity=Anti-Buoyancy. ```Brian A M Stuckless, Ph.T (Tivity). Re: Timing (Not TiME) dilates. Re: Coy GR Test POiNT-mass. Re: Emit detect Dirac Sea h*fL=nA*hbar*c/rA. ..END of Re-POSTs. |
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