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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Particle Physics / May 2006



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Measuring mass experimentally

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Golden Boar - 29 Apr 2006 01:58 GMT
What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
PD - 29 Apr 2006 14:21 GMT
> What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?

That depends on whether the object is macroscopic and long-lived, or
microscopic and short-lived, or following some other description. What
did you have in mind?

PD
Golden Boar - 30 Apr 2006 01:23 GMT
> > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> PD

I meant microscopic and short lived.
PD - 30 Apr 2006 02:20 GMT
> > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I meant microscopic and short lived.

Excellent question.
If it is short-lived, that means that it decays into products. The
products are things that we can measure, including their energy and
momentum. (How we do that is whole other question.)
What we know is that the invariant mass of the decaying particle is the
same as the invariant mass of the system of final products. The
invariant mass of the system of final products is m = sqrt (E^2 - p^2),
where E is the (scalar) sum of the energies of all the final products,
and p is the (magnitude of the vector) sum of the momenta of all the
final products. In principle, if we do this just once -- for even one
decay -- then we've found the mass of the particle.
In practice, however, sometimes these final products do not come from
the decay of the short-lived particle. Sometimes they come from other
processes which happen to mimic the same products from the decay of the
particle. This is called background. If you do the same calculation for
a background event, you will get a completely different mass than what
you'd see from a short-lived particle decay.
But if you look at a bunch of these kinds of events, all with the
distinguishing final products, and you do the same calculation for each
of these events, and plot the distribution of those calculated masses,
you'll see a sharp hump on top of a flat background distribution. An
example is shown here: http://history.fnal.gov/jyoh_docs/jpg/604.jpg
This sharp hump is the signal of the decay of the short-lived particle,
and the central mass of that hump is the mass of the particle. In fact,
you learn something from the *width* of that distribution, because the
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle tells you that the shorter the life of
that particle, the wider that mass distribution will be -- so that
measuring the width actually gives you a measurement of the lifetime of
the particle.

PD
Golden Boar - 30 Apr 2006 02:34 GMT
> > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> PD

If I remember correctly, most things will eventually decay into
electrons, neutrinos and photons, so how do we measure the mass of
electrons?
FrediFizzx - 30 Apr 2006 09:23 GMT
> > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> electrons, neutrinos and photons, so how do we measure the mass of
> electrons?

Weigh them and assume the equivalence principle is correct. ;-)  Free
protons have never been seen to decay either... yet.  And I doubt very
much that we will ever see a proton decay except by annihilation with an
anti-proton.  Electrons and protons are "locked out" of the quantum
"vacuum" permanently except by annihilation due to the structure of the
quantum "vacuum", IMHO.  Well, you would think that an electron could
maybe decay to a neutrino but it can't because the "books" won't
balance.  Mainly, charge would not be conserved.

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps

http://www.vacuum-physics.com
Golden Boar - 30 Apr 2006 09:22 GMT
> > > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an
> object?
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> http://www.vacuum-physics.com

How do you weigh an electron?
FrediFizzx - 01 May 2006 04:10 GMT
> > > > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an
> > object?
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> > maybe decay to a neutrino but it can't because the "books" won't
> > balance.  Mainly, charge would not be conserved.

> How do you weigh an electron?

With an electron scale, of course. ;-)

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps

http://www.vacuum-physics.com
PD - 02 May 2006 20:07 GMT
> > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> electrons, neutrinos and photons, so how do we measure the mass of
> electrons?

The Bainbridge apparatus (essentially a spectrometer) measured the
charge-to-mass ratio for electrons. The charge of electrons was
measured by Millikan. This enabled us to measure the mass of electrons
a long, long time ago.

PD
Golden Boar - 03 May 2006 08:57 GMT
> > > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> > > > >
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> PD

Could Compton scattering be used to measure the mass of the electron?
PD - 03 May 2006 14:15 GMT
> > > > > > > What methods are used experimentally measure the mass of an object?
> > > > > >
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Could Compton scattering be used to measure the mass of the electron?

I suppose, though I'm unaware of an experiment that was designed to
improve the accuracy on the electron mass measurement using Compton
scattering. Best measurements now use a Penning trap, and I doubt that
Compton scattering would be competitive with that method.

PD
Golden Boar - 05 May 2006 14:04 GMT
Looking at details on these Penning traps, it appears that they
actually measure frequency. Is this correct?
 
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