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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Particle Physics / April 2008W and Z ~ Created from whole cloth?
Hi Guys, I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z particles. This raised a couple of quick questions: 1) when protium becomes Deuterium, ie one proton and one neutron, where do the W and Z particles come from? 2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when in any other atom? 3) where do the W and Z particles go when Deuterium decays? I assume that they are some kind of virtual particle (boson), but that answer does not seem to be entirely satisfactory  SignatureKind Regards Robert Karl Stonjek On Apr 26, 7:47 pm, "Robert Karl Stonjek" <ston...@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > 3) where do the W and Z particles go when Deuterium decays? Could you please say more about Deuterium decay in terms of observables? I've always considered deuterium to be a stable isotope. I have never practiced any special precautions when handling deuterated compounds. Was I wrong? > 3) where do the W and Z particles go when Deuterium decays? Could you please say more about Deuterium decay in terms of observables? I've always considered deuterium to be a stable isotope. I have never practiced any special precautions when handling deuterated compounds. Was I wrong? RKS: It is my understanding that all elements decay except iron. On further thought, Deuterium decays into helium (discussed in the context of hypothetical fusion reactors and I have seen it discussed with respect to biological reactions, but I know little of the details of this). Even so, there is most probably some condition under which a deuterium atom will lose a neutron ie "deuterium stripping". If such stripping occurs, what happens to the W and Z particles? Or, in a similar vein, where do the W and Z particles come from when deuterium forms (I understand that most of it formed in the big bang). Robert PS for all practical purposes, deuterium is stable (not that you were about to panic on my say so :) On Apr 27, 10:47 pm, "Robert Karl Stonjek" <ston...@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > If such stripping occurs, what happens to the W and Z particles? Or, in a > similar vein, where do the W and Z particles come from when deuterium forms > (I understand that most of it formed in the big bang). I think you need to distinguish between observables and non- observables. When you replace the proton for the deuteron in heavy water you have a set of observable property changes. The extra neutron in the deuteron has mass so you can easily measure a differerent density, for example. I don't think it is worth asking existential questions about particles that are not observable. That's just me, I'm a practitioner of the black arts that work. Call me an engineer if you wish. I'm no theoretical speculative philosopher. > If such stripping occurs, what happens to the W and Z particles? Or, in a > similar vein, where do the W and Z particles come from when deuterium forms > (I understand that most of it formed in the big bang). I think you need to distinguish between observables and non- observables. When you replace the proton for the deuteron in heavy water you have a set of observable property changes. The extra neutron in the deuteron has mass so you can easily measure a differerent density, for example. I don't think it is worth asking existential questions about particles that are not observable. That's just me, I'm a practitioner of the black arts that work. Call me an engineer if you wish. I'm no theoretical speculative philosopher. RKS: I just assumed that this was a well trodden path that was well researched and had ready answers to the questions I posed - they seemed fairly straight forward. If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon, the answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a photon loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of the electron does change. I thought there might be an answer along the same lines for the W and Z ~ didn't realise I had to venture into a lab and weigh up the little fellers for myself. Robert |
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