On Electrodynamics
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Sergio - 11 Jan 2005 08:27 GMT In the book "Classical Electrodynamics", Jackson clearly states that much of the electrodynamics had developed as an experimental science.
I am wondering if there have been successful attempts to develop the subject on pure abstract reasoning, as can be done with thermodynamics. Any reference would be appreciated.
Also, if there any other text on Electrodynamics of the level and covering the same material of Jackson's book?
Thanks in advance.
Sergio
antimatter33@yahoo.com - 11 Jan 2005 21:49 GMT Electrodynamics can be (should be?) treated on the same level of abstraction as thermodynamics - see for example A. Sommerfeld, "Lectures on Theoretical Physics - Vol IV - Electrodynamics" (highly recommended book).
-drl
> In the book "Classical Electrodynamics", Jackson clearly states > that much of the electrodynamics had developed as an experimental [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Sergio rwmw@telus.net - 13 Jan 2005 19:28 GMT Check out F. W. Hehl's papers at arXiv
Igor Khavkine - 13 Jan 2005 19:29 GMT > In the book "Classical Electrodynamics", Jackson clearly states that much > of the electrodynamics had developed as an experimental science. > > I am wondering if there have been successful attempts to develop the > subject on pure abstract reasoning, as can be done with thermodynamics. > Any reference would be appreciated. Once you have Maxwell's equations, you are pretty much set and experimental input is only necessary for comparing with predictions. Of course you'll also have to make assumptions about how various sorts of matter behave in E&M fields, for instance macroscopic polarization and magnetization. Or do you want to derive Maxwell's equations from some more basic assumption?
> Also, if there any other text on Electrodynamics of the level > and covering the same material of Jackson's book? Jackson itself has a very nice bibliography. Some titles that spring to mind are
_Classical Electricity and Magnetism_ by Panofsky and Phillips _Classical Electrodynamics_ by Julian Seymour Schwinger _Course of Theoretical Physics_ Vols. 2 and 8 by Landau and Lifshitz.
See vol. 2 of the latter for a derivation of electrodynamics purely from an action principle.
Hope this helps.
Igor
Oz - 18 Jan 2005 19:21 GMT Igor Khavkine <igor.kh@gmail.com> writes
>Once you have Maxwell's equations, you are pretty much set and >experimental input is only necessary for comparing with predictions. Of >course you'll also have to make assumptions about how various sorts of >matter behave in E&M fields, for instance macroscopic polarization and >magnetization. Or do you want to derive Maxwell's equations from some more >basic assumption? Of course it depends on your viewpoint, but for me its vastly more satisfying to consider EM as electrostatics+SR, and drop magnetism as 'elemental'.
Being a novice I'm not absolutely sure if this is enough. More complex spaces would require electrostatics+GR, I guess.
And as I understand it (poorly) spin is a natural consequence of SR too.
My only real problem is that I have an irresistible urge to have some sort of extra dimension called something like 'electrostatic space', which I am somewhat at a loss to describe.
 Signature Oz
Ken S. Tucker - 27 Jan 2005 15:45 GMT [...]
> My only real problem is that I have an irresistible urge to have some > sort of extra dimension called something like 'electrostatic space', > which I am somewhat at a loss to describe. > Oz My goodness OZ, you do have a very short list of "real problems", anyway Dover publishes, P.G.Bergmann's, "Introduction to ... Relativity" that has a a couple of chapters on Kaluza's 5D theory. I find Eq.(17.61) inspiring, but not an endorsement. Ken S. Tucker
ksh95@yahoo.com - 18 Jan 2005 19:21 GMT > Once you have Maxwell's equations, you are pretty much set and > experimental input is only necessary for comparing with predictions. Of > course you'll also have to make assumptions about how various sorts of > matter behave in E&M fields, for instance macroscopic polarization and > magnetization. Standard elementary condensed matter is usually sufficient to make all of those assumptions...predictions. Junior high level condensed matter can handle the rest.
> > Also, if there any other text on Electrodynamics of the level > > and covering the same material of Jackson's book? In a field as old as electrodynamics, there are billions of books. What specifically are you looking for?
antimatter33@yahoo.com - 18 Jan 2005 19:21 GMT Igor Khavkine wote:
> Once you have Maxwell's equations, you are pretty much set and > experimental input is only necessary for comparing with predictions. Of > course you'll also have to make assumptions about how various sorts of > matter behave in E&M fields, for instance macroscopic polarization and > magnetization. Or do you want to derive Maxwell's equations from some more > basic assumption? There is also the Lorentz dynamics, so properly this theory is "Maxwell-Lorentz electrodynamics".
> > Also, if there any other text on Electrodynamics of the level > > and covering the same material of Jackson's book? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > _Classical Electrodynamics_ by Julian Seymour Schwinger > _Course of Theoretical Physics_ Vols. 2 and 8 by Landau and Lifshitz. Schwinger's book amounts to lecture notes compiled and published by his students, and is just uniquely excellent!
IIRC Panofsky and Phillips talks about the very important "Helmholtz problem", that is, representing a vector as a curl-free and a divergence-free part - this is the most important theorem of all for electrodynamics.
Another excellent book is Sommerfeld's, vol 4 from his 6-volume series on theoretical physics - this set is an excellent complement to the Landau-Lifshitz series. Also in this series are "Mechanics of Deformable Bodies" and "Optics", which can be studied alongside electrodynamics proper.
-drl
whopkins@csd.uwm.edu - 23 Jan 2005 14:57 GMT > I am wondering if there have been successful attempts to develop the > subject on pure abstract reasoning, as can be done with thermodynamics. One approach: The Wigner classification of the representations of the Poincare' group can be applied both to classical and quantum theory, not just quantum theory.
Another approach: The classical theory, in fact, factors into a "classical" classical part (which is the macroscopic field equations which are a subset of those listed in Maxwell), plus a "non-classical" classical part: the constitutive relations (which are different that those posed by Maxwell, in as far as Maxwell posed any).
The former part is quite general, given its huge invariance group and can be considered separately from the rest. Then you do, indeed, have something quite analogous to what you see in thermodynamics. In fact more than an analogy: the differential form theta = -E.dD - H.dB suddenly comes into prominence. Using the relations D = E + P, B = H + M (treating epsilon_0 = mu_0 = 1), this yields theta = d(-1/2 (E^2 + H^2)) - E.dP - H.dM, which up to a total differential (and signs and constant factors) is just the quantity of heat exchange dQ.
The integrability of this form gives you a stress tensor; otherwise you have a force law given in part by a stress tensor, plus an irreversible part expressed in terms of theta. So, one might adopt as an axiom, which provides a generalizing envelope for any set of constitutive relations, that theta be an exact differential. This then implies all sorts of variant formulations, e.g., a quasi-Lagrangian: L = L(D,B); dL/dD = -E; dL/dB = -H and quasi-potentials derived from it by Legendre transforms, e.g., a quasi-Hamiltonian: h = h(E,H): dh/dE = D; dh/dH = B; h = D.E + B.H - L. These play the analogous role of thermodynamic potentials.
So, this gives you (ironically) a set of Maxwell relations, like you see in thermodynamics, for instance: (dD/dH)_E = (dB/dE)_H (del_E x D)_H = 0; (del_H x B)_E = 0. (Out of this, one finds the constitutive matrices epsilon^{ij} = dD^j/dE_i; and mu^{ij} = dB^j/dH_i are both symmetric, for instance).
The second part of the factoring then focuses on the constitutive relations, themselves. Absent these, the considerations above apply generally to all sorts of 4-D spacetimes (Galilean, Minkowski, even Euclidean), since the field equations: div D = rho; div B = sigma curl D - dH/dt = J; curl B + dE/dt = -K sigma = 0, K = 0 and force/power laws F = rho E + J x B + sigma H - K x D P = J.E + K.H are S(GL(4) x GL(2)) invariant (allowing for non-zero sigma, K) with a subgroup thereof (strictly larger than GL(4), I believe) being the little group for sigma = 0, K = 0.
So, all the information about spacetime structure is actually locked into the constitutive relations themselves. For instance, the set D = epsilon_0 (E - v x B) B = mu_0 (D + v x H) is Galilean invariant, (provided v transforms in the obvious way under Galilean transformations), and essentially postulates the existence of an 'ether frame'. The set D = epsilon_0 E; B = mu_0 H in contrast gives you a Minkowski spacetime (up to conformal invariance).
The whole purpose of the enterprise, one may suppose you're seeking, is to get a foundation that's consistent and that either removes or explains away the classical singularity in the force law and stress tensor.
That's precisely the advantage of this kind of framework. Because, now that the duality structure (D* = E, B* = H) or (equivalently) the constitutive relations (D = epsilon_0 E, B = mu_0 H) have been separated out, you have more room for movement to address the general issues, isolate the problem(s) and resolve them.
There's a lot that's non-trivial that needs to be said with this factoring. A key theorem would be the condition that results from requiring that the expressions for force and power remain regular. In particular, you can ask what combinations of point-like singularities are possible that do not result in singularity multiplied by singularity. For instance, tracing out the assumption that rho is singular at a point, you find from (div D = rho) that D will be too. Then from the law (F = rho E + ...) you find that E must NOT be singular at that point. Therefore, the relation (D = epsilon_0 E) cannot hold in the neighborhood of that point -- which forces you to revert back to the more general equations posed above.
So, the range of allowable constitutive relations and distributions of charge are restricted by the consistency requirement.
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