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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Research / August 2007



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Where can we bend the rules of QM?

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Gen Zhang - 21 Aug 2007 16:38 GMT
This is a plea for the experts to refine my understand:

As I understand it, the current state-of-the-art on reconstruction of
QM from postulates, in the vein of von Neumann, has gotten so far:

1. The fundamental measurement of a system, or possible information
about a sytem, is a binary valued question.
2. Each system has a finite number of such questions which maximally
describe it.
3. There are still more questions, the answers to which are not
determined from a maximal description.

I believe that it is a theorem that this gives an orthomodular lattice
containing subsets which are boolean algebras. Now the next step is
hazy: that it implies a representation as a Hilbert space with
projectors. Words seem to be minced over this point. Is this really
true? Is it only true if we understand "representation" to be some
homomorphism to a vector space? If so, why a vector space?

Now, we assume that it is a vector space (Piron suggests that a
Hilbert space over R, C or H would do). Following Chris Fuchs, we
introduce another postulate,

4. The answer to a question is independent of the other questions
asked -- non-contextuality.

Then we recover the tensor product structure for combining systems
together, POVM for measurements, density matrices and the Born rule
for interpretation as probabilities. As a corollary, we exclude R and
H for the field over which our Hilbert space is defined, as only C
gives the tensor product rule uniquely; to be rigorous, we've only
excluded H as it over-constrains the choice -- R would need some other
postulate.

More speculatively, we can recover unitary time evolution, if we're
willing to accept:

5. It is not possible to physically perform NP-complete problems in P
time.

Question for the experts of SPR:
Is this understanding correct? And *why* on earth a vector space?

Regards and thanks,
Gen Zhang
Oh No - 22 Aug 2007 11:52 GMT
Thus spake Gen Zhang <genneth@gmail.com>
>This is a plea for the experts to refine my understand:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>true? Is it only true if we understand "representation" to be some
>homomorphism to a vector space? If so, why a vector space?

I think you may find the mathematical relationship between a lattice of
propositions and Hilbert space explained here

Karl Svozil arXiv:quant-ph/9902042

If you are looking for a more intuitive kind of understanding, think of
vector addition as a form of weighted logical OR, and think of the
probability (the square of the norm) as a truth value.

>Now, we assume that it is a vector space (Piron suggests that a
>Hilbert space over R, C or H would do). Following Chris Fuchs, we
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>5. It is not possible to physically perform NP-complete problems in P
>time.

Usually unitary time evolution is required by conservation of
probabilities.

Regards

Signature

Charles Francis
moderator sci.physics.foundations.
substitute charles for NotI to email

John F - 24 Aug 2007 06:41 GMT
> Thus spake Gen Zhang <genneth@gmail.com>
>> <<snip>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Usually unitary time evolution is required by conservation of
> probabilities.

That's what I'd heard.  And I'd never before heard Gen Zhang's
(5) discussed in a physical context like this.  What does it
physically mean?  That is, "if we're willing to accept" (5),
what are the physical consequences we can derive from it?
Signature

John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )

Gen Zhang - 24 Aug 2007 14:00 GMT
On Aug 24, 6:41 am, John F <jo...@please.see.sig.for.address.com>
wrote:
> > Thus spake Gen Zhang <genn...@gmail.com>
> >> <<snip>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j...@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )

I got that from Scott Aaronson, here:

[1] http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0502072v2

I have to admit that I'm not entirely happy about the argument any
more.

Regards,
Gen Zhang
 
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