Commutation Relations between L_i , x_i , p_i
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pirillo - 02 Jul 2008 21:18 GMT Can someone give me a list of the commutation relations between the L_i and p_i and x_i in ordinary QM
[L_i, p_j] ij=123 [L_i, x_j]
If not tell me where such a list may be found? I'm deriving them myself, but would like a reference for the future and in case I make some dyslexic error.
Thanks
a student - 05 Jul 2008 14:44 GMT > Can someone give me a list of the commutation relations between the > L_i and p_i and x_i in ordinary QM [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks For any vector operator (A_1, A_2, A_3), one has [ L_r, A_s ] = -i hbar eps_{rst} A_t, where eps_{rst} is the Levi-Civita symbol. See, eg, Merzbacher, "Quantum Mechanics".
This relation arises because L is the generator of rotations, i.e., the unitary operator U(n) = exp[ i L.n/hbar ] has to rotate any given observable vector A, i.e. U(n)* A U(n) = R(n) A, where R(n) denotes rotation in the direction n/|n| by an angle |n|. In particular, for infinitesimal n, one can expand both sides of this relation, to first order in n, to give (-i/hbar) [ L.n, A] = n x A, and thence obtain the above commutation relation.
pirillo - 13 Jul 2008 19:53 GMT I am amazed by this statement:
> For any vector operator (A_1, A_2, A_3), one has > [ L_r, A_s ] = -i hbar eps_{rst} A_t, > where eps_{rst} is the Levi-Civita symbol. See, eg, Merzbacher, > "Quantum Mechanics". Just seems weird even though It seems to work in all the cases I can think of right now. It would seem to me that the properties of the L_i rotating things, or even the commutation relations would depend heavily on the type of observable one chose.
Unless I'm not understanding the definition of a vector operator. Is it just 3 commuting observables? Or is it 3 observables whose average values rotate correctly under a rotation? Either way I think the answer to my reply to Igor, will clear up this point.
Hendrik van Hees - 15 Jul 2008 18:32 GMT > I am amazed by this statement: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > values rotate correctly under a rotation? Either way I think the > answer to my reply to Igor, will clear up this point. The statement is just a definition of the term "vector operator". A vector is an object whose components wrt. a Euclidean basis transform under rotations by application of the pertinent SO(3) matrix (the fundamental representation of the rotation group). The "infinitesimal version" of such a rotation are given by the above written commutator relations between the (total) angular momentum and the quantity in question. Note that the angular-momentum operators are the generators of rotations in the sense of Lie groups, i.e., the rotation is given by
R(phi,n)=exp(i n.J phi),
where n is the unit vector giving the direction of the rotation axis in the sense of the right-hand rule, and phi is the rotation angle.
Of course, you can generalize these ideas to more complicated objects, e.g., tensor operators or spinor operators. A good treatment of these topics can be found, e.g., in
J.J. Sakurai, Modern Quantum Mechanics, Addison-Wesley.
 Signature Hendrik van Hees Institut für Theoretische Physik Phone: +49 641 99-33342 Justus-Liebig-Universität Gießen Fax: +49 641 99-33309 D-35392 Gießen http://theory.gsi.de/~vanhees/faq/
Igor - 05 Jul 2008 14:44 GMT > Can someone give me a list of the commutation relations between the > L_i and p_i and x_i in ordinary QM [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks The rules are as follows:
[L_i, x_j] = i hbar eps(ijk) x_k
[L_i, p_j] = i hbar eps(ijk) p_k
where eps(ijk) is the Levi Civita symbol.
pirillo - 13 Jul 2008 03:35 GMT I asked this question, because I thought it would help me to prove something. Unfortunately I am not any closer...I think. I want to show that the average values of position and of momentum get rotated after we apply e^{iL_z theta} . In other words I want to show that :
< e^{iL_z theta} v, x_k e^{iL_z theta} v > = taking the vector made by the <v, x_j v > where j=123 give the components of the vector, and rotating this vector arount the z axis by theta and then taking its kth-component.
However, I want the proof of this.
Thanks
Igor Khavkine - 15 Jul 2008 18:38 GMT > I asked this question, because I thought it would help me to prove > something. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > However, I want the proof of this. The desired transformation properties of x_k already hold as operator identities. It necessarily follows that the same identities are satisfied when expectation values are taken.
I'll illustrate with the single component x_1, as an infinitesimal rotation about the z-axis (using L_3) is effected. You should be able to complete the proof.
Take the relevant commutator from (the other) Igor's post:
[L_3, x_1] = i hbar x_2 .
Expand the rotation operators to first order in theta:
exp(-i L_3 theta/hbar) x_1 exp(i L_3 theta/hbar) = x_1 - i theta/hbar [L_3, x_1] + ... = x_1 + theta x_2 + ... .
Doing the same thing for x_2 and x_3, and then exponentiating this to a finite rotation, you'll get
(rotated x_1) = cos(theta) x_1 + sin(theta) x_2 .
Which is precisely what you'd expect for the x-axis component of a 3- vector, when it is rotated through angle theta about the z-axis. Once this identity is proved, it's easy to take expectation values of both sides and notice that the identity still holds.
Hope this helps.
Igor
P.S.: pirillo, if you post through Google Groups, you should either manually terminate your lines at 71 characters, or make manual breaks only between paragraphs. This will remove spurious line breaks from your posts and make them easier to read.
Rock Brentwood - 19 Jul 2008 03:02 GMT > Can someone give me a list of the commutation relations between the > L_i and p_i and x_i in ordinary QM [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks [L_i, V_j] = V_k for (i,j,k) = (1,2,3), (2,3,1), (3,1,2) for any 3- vector V formed out of P, L, K, and the energy H by use of cross products, dot products, multiplication by scalars and addition. [L_i, S] = 0 for any scalar S formed out of P, L, K and H by the same set of operations.
If you use vectors-valued dummy arguments to index the generators with; i.e. L_u = L_1 u^1 + L_2 u^2 + L_3 u^3; similarly for K_u, P_u, and V_u above, then [L_u, V_v] = V_{uxv}; [L, S] = (vector 0).
For ordinary QM, one has [K_u, K_v] = 0 for the boost generators; and [K_u, P_v] = m (u.v). H is interpreted a kinetic energy, and one has [K, H] = P.
For relativistic QM, one has [K_u, K_v] = -(1/c)^2 L_{uxv}, [K_u, P_v] = M (u.v), where M = E/c^2 = m + H/c^2. H is the kinetic energy and E is the total energy, here. The distinction between H and E, in this context, is superfluous, but helps show what's going on in the non- relativistic limit (1/c^2) -> 0.
The invariants in both cases are: m = M - H/c^2 (or just m = M for the non-relativistic case); P^2 - 2MH + (1/c)^2 H^2 = P^2 - E^2/c^2 + (mc)^2 (or just P^2 - 2MH for the non-relativistic case). Plus you have the invariant W^2 - (1/c)^2 W_0^2 (or just W^2 if (1/c)^2 -> 0), where W = ML + PxK and W_0 = P.L gives you mass x spin. This is present both relativistically AND non-relativistically.
A consequence of the points raised above: [L_i, W_j] = W_k where (i,j,k) = (1,2,3), (2,3,1) and (3,1,2); or [L_u, W_v] = W_{uxv}; and [L_i, W_0] = 0.
It's a remarkable, but little-known, fact that the same process used to convert the invariant P^2 - E^2/c^2 + (mc)^2 into the Dirac equation can be used for P^2 - 2MH + k H^2 for any k. The resulting algebra is independent of what k is! (In fact, it's just the complexified Dirac algebra gamma_0, gamma_1, gamma_2, gamma_3, gamma_5). The "Dirac" equation for k = 0 is equivalent to the Schroedinger equation. Though quadratic, it "reduces" to linear in H because M reduces to a constant, m. So you more commonly see it as H = P^2/2m, when really you ought to be writing P^2 - 2mH = 0 to get a better picture of what's going on here.
So, that should answer your question and more.
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