Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Biology
BiologyBotanyMicrobiologyEntomologyEvolutionPaleontology
Chemistry
General ChemistryAnalytical ChemistryElectrochemistryOrganic Synthesis
Earth Science
GeologyMineralogyOceanographyMeteorologyEarthquakes
Physics
General PhysicsResearchRelativityParticle PhysicsElectromagnetismFusionOpticsAcousticsNew Theories

Natural Science Forum / Physics / Research / August 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Turbulence

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
kushal - 28 Aug 2008 04:26 GMT
Hello..

I have one question regarding Turbulence.

The basic idea behind modeling turbulent flows is to find the energy
spectrum for different length scales which are present in the system.
And most of the turbulent flows have these "eddies" or "vortices" in
them.

Why are "eddies" or circular patterns or vortices so common in
turbulent flows? What is the physical origin of these eddies? Why
don't we see any other physical structures in turbulent flows apart
from these vortices?

Thanks,
Kushal.
Uncle Al - 29 Aug 2008 03:27 GMT
> Hello..
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> don't we see any other physical structures in turbulent flows apart
> from these vortices?

Aerodynamicist Theodore von Kármán died and went to heaven.  In his
registration packet was a bright orange ticket.  Said Saint Peter,

"You may get in line to ask God Himself one question."

von Kármán ran to join the far end of the orange ticket queue.  It was
a long line, a *very* long line.  Eons passed by and, sure enough,
eventually in the distance he espied a giant glowing throne.  More
eons passed by and, finally, his moment arrived!

von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and
said, "God, explain turbulence."

Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

holog - 29 Aug 2008 11:05 GMT
> Hello..
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks,
> Kushal.

that is how bumble bees fly

they stack the the eddies(vorticies) to create compressed air which to
step the next wing flow on.

holog
Gerard Westendorp - 29 Aug 2008 14:29 GMT
[..]
> Why are "eddies" or circular patterns or vortices so common in
> turbulent flows? What is the physical origin of these eddies? Why
> don't we see any other physical structures in turbulent flows apart
> from these vortices?

Because flows are more or less incompressible, all flow must go in a
loop. If you start with a container with zero flow, the next simplest
structure is a single vortex.
A general flow can be written as a superposition of vortices.

I have a free n-dimensional fluid dynamics simulator at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~westy31/CellFlow/CellFlow.html

Gerard
Douglas Eagleson - 29 Aug 2008 14:29 GMT
> Hello..
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks,
> Kushal.

A topological examination was the idea of why do air current
structures exhibit only a vertical component relative to the flow
along the earth's surface.

A kind of special airflow occurs because the earth causes a relative
flow.  For example an infinite media has no relative direction.  A
special kind of flow would be a recirculation in a small area.
Infinite flow would be the only technical non-recirculation type of
air movment.  On earth larger recirculations such as high or low
pressure areas appear the common vortex.

SO in finite media, air must recirculate or compress.

An example of another type of circulation was the vertical vortex as
opposed to the compact vortex,  A wing of an airplane makes a special
tornado like vortex as opposed to the simple high or low pressure area
vortex.

So air must always behave as topology demands and non infinite media
without air compression must stir.  Stir as a cup of coffee.  The term
for topological solution was to identify the axis.  All media must
exhibit a solution to motion. A motion reference point is caused by
the first momenta transfer to the media.  IN diagram

o-

o means a motion whereas the "-" means the from a point act.  Making
the place flow moves from a true coordinate.  ALL finite media exhibit
flow with coordinate.

A river bank in 2D analogy to air flow models ducted air flow.  A duct
side would alter topological coordinate to cause another non-vortex
kind of motion.  A reversal of direction as the recirculation type
appears far different from single point coordinate recirculation.

A line or duct wall causes a flow gradients in ducts.  Making upstream
and down stream turns of motion allowable.

There is no upstream to a high or low pressure system.  What is
interesting is how to alter toplogy to cause a special air flow to
allow novel wind turbines.

Here is a simple alteration. Place a stick on the earth and cause air
to flow along the length of the stick.  Or point the stick along the
wind vector.  Make a long vortex only wind turbine, deny air the
ability to locally recirculate.  A wall of a duct enforces zero
recircualtion for its length. How can this be done in a ductless
fashion? It can.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.