 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / January 2007Steorn Energy Device
What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for scientists to test it for them. I wonder why they don't rent a hall and set up their machine to power a lightbulb. The webiste is www.steorn.net. I do think it is a scam on the non evidence so far. I believe that a perpetual motion machine is possible if we had a good light weight shield for magnetic forces. This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction thereby creating power. In sci.physics, rebel <rebel@prosof.net> wrote on Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:13:25 +0100 <44e9bf73$0$15199$a8266bb1@reader.corenews.com>: > I do think it is a scam on the non evidence so far. > I believe that a perpetual motion machine is possible if we had a good light > weight shield for magnetic forces. > This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction > thereby creating power. It would probably take energy to create or move the shield. I doubt one could win that way.  Signature#191, ewill3@earthlink.net Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us. This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction > thereby creating power. It would probably take energy to create or move the shield. I doubt one could win that way. Signature#191, ewill3@earthlink.net Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh ///// Well I do not agree. A disc of shielding material very thin light weight material spinning and the ports in the disc would allow pulses of magnetic energy through and cause energy to be generated with pistons or other methods. i/e direct electricity > This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction > > thereby creating power. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cause energy to be generated with pistons or other methods. i/e direct > electricity You haven't the tiniest clue what you're talking about. Magnetic shunts are heavy in any case because they need lots of material. It needs energy to move anything hence no free lunch. Graham > I do think it is a scam on the non evidence so far. > I believe that a perpetual motion machine is possible if we had a good light > weight shield for magnetic forces. A 'shield' for magnetic forces? Sounds like a ferromagnetic material to me. Iron makes great "Faraday cages." <Google this term.> Want it light weight? Use chicken wire. It doesn't 'shield' magnetic fields so much as it sucks them up like a sponge. > This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction > thereby creating power. Problem. The 'direction' of a magnetic field is arbitrary. It is not really a vector field but a 'pseudovector' (often called a tensor) field. The 'direction' of the flux lines is simply a matter of convention. When you set up a magnetic field, it expands in the direction of *botth* poles equally. Ths use of magnetic fields to produce 'free energy' is almost as old as the idea of perpetual motion: http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/museum/unwork.htm http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/1611/ and so on... Tom Davidson Richmond, VA Steorn has, in fact, patented a magnetic shield. Perpetual-motion machines based upon such shields are an important sub-class of the species. What the inventors forget is that energy is required to insert the shield and, as any real scientist would expect, this energy is just the minimum required to negate the energy gain which would occur if the shield really worked as claimed. The inventors then find crafty ways of supplying the extra energy - so as to scam investors. This is done by using compressed air, electromagnets (and concealed batteries) or mechanically moved permanent magnets. The latter method was used by a 19th-century crook called Spence. His con was so successful that he fooled Sir David Brewster (biographer of Newton, inventor of the kaleidoscope) into publishing a scientific paper about his machine. >I do think it is a scam on the non evidence so far. >I believe that a perpetual motion machine is possible if we had a good light >weight shield for magnetic forces. >This would allow for pulsing of the magnetic field in a forward direction >thereby creating power. > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The webiste is www.steorn.net. Because they are charlatans. The challenge is bogus; its purpose is to impress potential suckers. Paul Cardinale > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Because they are charlatans. The challenge is bogus; its purpose is to > impress potential suckers. They may have forgotten about the laws concerning fraud. I guess this ploy is intended to make them look respectable and try to dodge any prosecution for such. Graham Nothing new here. You can buy switchable magnetic hold-down devices from any good industrial supply catalog. They've been around and patented for over 60 years. Shielding a magnetic field has been exhaustively studied, both theoretically and practically, for over 130 years. Not a sliver of a chance of making energy this way. If there was the slightest possibility this could fly, not only would it have been discovered eons ago, there would be venture capitalists throwing bucketfuls of shekels at these guys--- As differentiated from their making sensational and incomplete pleas for publicity. > Nothing new here. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > throwing bucketfuls of shekels at these guys--- As differentiated > from their making sensational and incomplete pleas for publicity. Not that I really know much about magnetic fields, but isn't the simplest way (apart from the general thermodynamic argument) to argue why this should not work the following: (1) The potential energy of a permanent magnet in a static magnetic field (which they claim they have) is equal to the scalar product of the magnetic field and the magnetic moment. (2) Thus moving a permanent magnet in a static magnetic field through a loop (which they say they do) always gives a net energy gain of ZERO. (3) Mechanical friction means that in reality a finite work input is required to keep the thing going. If you listen to the phone interview given by the Steorn CEO, it appears that the shielding is merely a way to construct the optimum STATIC magnetic field for the device, thus no moving around of the shields while the device is running. > > Nothing new here. > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > magnetic field for the device, thus no moving around of the shields while > the device is running. Their claim is, in effect, that there is something wrong with the known laws of energy and magnetic fields. That their machine (allegedly) works is their proof that the laws are wrong. Therefore you can't disprove their claims that the laws of physics are wrong simply by applying these very same laws. Instead, it takes a demonstration. If their machine works as they claim, some laws of science will have to be rewritten. Personally, I believe that their machine doesn't work, because if it did, they could sell the generated power and use the profits to build even bigger and better generators of the same kind, and then sell even more energy. They would not have a need for investors. But as far as I know, they don't sell electrical power, and they do ask for venture capital. S. > > > Nothing new here. > > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > S. Has anyone heard any updates from Steorn? I understand that in all likely hood there's nothing of interest to this machine, but this company is making such loud noise with big claims that I wish some respectable scientists would go test the machine. After all Steorn is paying for the trip and everything I believe. I see nothing wrong with anyone here going to test their machine and in fact I applaud any such scientist for taking such an open-minded step. If by small chance this company is not lying then humanity could obviously benefit. We're talking Nobel price. Has anyone here applied for their challenge? Paul The net effect is Zero if you allow it to move completely around un-shielded, but what if the "unique" configuration allows for the magnetic fields to be "shielded" at key points in its rotation. Or having two magnets N and S, and the fields are shielded to provide a net effect greater than zero as they are shielded when "out of phase" of the shielding effects. Effectively turning the magnetic fields on/off during the rotation. This asymmetrical system could be what they are claiming. -charlie > > > (1) The potential energy of a permanent magnet in a static magnetic field > > > (which they claim they have) is equal to the scalar product of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > (3) Mechanical friction means that in reality a finite work input is > > > required to keep the thing going. > > > > Nothing new here. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Paul > The net effect is Zero if you allow it to move > completely around un-shielded, but what if the > "unique" configuration allows for the magnetic > fields to be "shielded" at key points in its > rotation. You can "what if" all you want but a magnetic field can NOT be shielded without consuming power. Period! > Or having two magnets N and S, and the fields > are shielded to provide a net effect greater than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This asymmetrical system could be what they are > claiming. Same as above. Give it up. NO ONE has ever, never, in the history of mankind EVER demonstrated a classic "Free Energy" to work! > -charlie Duane SignatureHome of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm [*] Powered by \ \ \ //| Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / | Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / | Red Rock Energy \ \ / / | Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / | 1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts | White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ | USA 55110-3364 === \ | (651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ | redrok@redrok.com (my email: address) \ | http://www.redrok.com (Web site) === > > The net effect is Zero if you allow it to move > > completely around un-shielded, but what if the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > of mankind EVER demonstrated a classic "Free Energy" > to work! Solar energy is free. I understand what you mean though since the title "free energy" is tainted, but free energy does not imply over unity or perpetual motion. The title "free energy" should mean exactly what it says-- free energy. Obviously this should not include the initial cost and maintenance as obviously this will always cost money, but the energy itself is free; i.e., the Sun does not charge a fee, does it, lol? Paul > > > Nothing new here. > > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > S. Has anyone heard any updates from Steorn? I understand that in all likely hood there's nothing of interest to this machine, but this company is making such loud noise with big claims that I wish some respectable scientists would go test the machine. After all Steorn is paying for the trip and everything I believe. I see nothing wrong with anyone here going to test their machine and in fact I applaud any such scientist for taking such an open-minded step. If by small chance this company is not lying then humanity could obviously benefit. We're talking Nobel price. Has anyone here applied for their challenge? Paul > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The webiste is www.steorn.net. According to their web site, 1707 scientists so far have expressed interest in testing their technology. 1707 scientists? That's a lot of scientists. I wonder how many of them are scientists. "Our technology has been independently validated by engineers and scientists - always off the record, always proven to work." Off the record, huh? >> What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts >> out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Off the record, huh? Two clicks and I saw enough. Another capital rip-off. That these websites exist is testimonial to human stupidity. Nobody does their homework anymore. I think it is just the right time to start a religion. Gads, the money I could make... Best, Dan. >>> What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts >>> out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >homework anymore. I think it is just the right time to start a religion. >Gads, the money I could make... Heck, yes, for sure. Given the crowds of ignorants, with delusions of competence and yearnings for content to fill their lives ... Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same" >>>> What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts >>>> out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Heck, yes, for sure. Given the crowds of ignorants, with delusions of >competence and yearnings for content to fill their lives ... School is cheaper. /BAH >>In article <AGwGg.8249$Oh1.4632@news01.roc.ny>, Dan Bloomquist ><public21@lakeweb.com> writes: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >School is cheaper. When it works. Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same" >>> What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts >>> out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >homework anymore. I think it is just the right time to start a religion. >Gads, the money I could make... Is this another Art Bell recommendation? /BAH Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did not claim total free energy just that for every 5 WE it would produce 15 WE about 3 times more power but what I can gather it was good for ventilation free running I would think. > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did > not claim total free energy just that for every 5 WE it would produce 15 WE > about 3 times more power but what I can gather it was good for ventilation > free running I would think. I always thought it was just Americans who believed in 'free energy'. I guess the idea's heading west and hit Ireland first ? Graham > > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham I could only speculate if the device is legit, but we all know the track record of so-called "free energy" doesn't amount to diddlysquat. I'm curious though, what approach should an inventor take who actually invents a legitimate device that taps into a large source of energy that's accessible 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Which of the following paths would you take? Personally I think such an inventor should seriously consider all below: 1. Should the inventor freely publish the invention with exact detailed build instructions and freely allow anyone to build and distribute such device for profit or non-profit? 2. Should the inventor state that he or she would accept _no_ investment money until such device is wide spread or proven to not be a scam so long as such device will remain public domain? 3. Should the inventor put forth some effort to demonstrate the device at universities, public tourist locations, television and news stations? It sounds stringent, but given the poor reputation of this industry it's probably a good path if the goal is to populate such questionable information as quickly as possible. Paul > > > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > > > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Paul None of the above. The inventor should plug the device into power grid and start a power company. No upfront capital needed and you can ramp up production capacity gradually. -kert > > > > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > > > > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > -kert Exactly ! If it's so good then use it ffs. They never do of course. Graham > > > > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > > > > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > -kert I think you're wrong. They should do the following: 1. Should freely publish the invention with exact detailed build instructions and freely allow anyone to build and distribute such device for profit or non-profit. 2. Should state that he or she would accept _no_ investment money until such device is wide spread or proven to not be a scam so long as such device will remain public domain? 3. Should put forth some effort to demonstrate the device at universities, public tourist locations, television and news stations? Paul "rebel" <rebel@prosof.net> wrote: > Problem is we have had so many claims, thinking of the Japanese gentleman, > who was supposed to in production selling to various countries, now he did > not claim total free energy just that for every 5 WE it would produce 15 WE > about 3 times more power but what I can gather it was good for ventilation > free running I would think. Be seeing you Jarred W Wallace and illustrated by Heather Hudson. We think that Lovecraft himself would approve, well we would hope. > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Off the record, huh? Including me. Not because I believe them but I want to see how stupid they are like the other 1706 scientists. Graham > > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Graham First I need to clarify: * I have no affiliation with Steorn. * I am very skeptical of Steorn. * I do not know anymore about this device than anyone else. I am a little appalled by the general comments here. Understandably this is coming from frustration and tired of hear the crying wolf. Yet IMHO does not justify such comments and behavior. No intelligent person would ever assume to know everything about the universe and IMHO it's safe to say humanity will always continue to discover. So who are we to say there are no unknown sea of energy. Some may call it ZPE or whatever. Truthfully, present conceived ideas of such unknown sea of energy is probably distorted and far from any theory. We should be patient and understanding. I am the people here are bigger than the comments stated so far. Sure there are plenty scam artists. Sure there's plenty of ignorance in the world. Lets not hang a person or company based on the track record of any industry. Even our legal system holds by "Innocent until proven guilty" If BBC can hear out Alan Guth say the following then perhaps we should at least consider the possibility that at some level there is an unknown sea of energy: A well-known TV science show by BBC called "Parallel Universes" interviewed Alan Guth on M-theory. Quote from Alan Guth: "I in fact have worked with several other people for some period of time on the question of whether or not it's in principle possible to create a new universe in the laboratory. Whether or not it really works we don't know for sure. It looks like it probably would work. It's actually safe to create a universe in your basement. It would not displace the universe around it even though it would grow tremendously. It would actually create its own space as it grows and in fact in a very short fraction of a second it would splice itself off completely from our Universe and evolve as an isolated closed universe growing to cosmic proportions without displacing any of the territory that we currently lay claim to." http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/parallelunitrans.shtml This company Steorn has made big claims, and challenges the conventional science community. They are probably looking for big names in the science community. Personally I think Steron should publicly demonstrate the machine in a clear and concise manner displaying all measuring procedures in extreme detail. Until then I don't think it's worth the time of any well-known scientist to investigate the Steron machine. Perhaps your typical university scientist may want to investigate it, but lets at least refrain from hanging the company. Paul > First I need to clarify: > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Paul Well, I'd be a lot easier to convince if they knew enough to be able to lie convincingly. Just little things like understanding the difference between energy and power. Tim Ward > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Off the record, huh? Off the record, yep. It does certainly seem suspicious. What they should do if they really _do_ have a working device is to give a working model to a good scientific organization and have them "lay everything bare", ie. make it all public with NO SECRECY involved AT ALL in the tests. If they can't do this then I won't bet money that the device works. On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:22:50 -0700, mike4ty4 wrote: >> > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts >> > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > they > can't do this then I won't bet money that the device works. Why should they give away their chance to patent the thing? > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:22:50 -0700, mike4ty4 wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Why should they give away their chance to patent the thing? Because first they need to prove that it works. > > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > they > can't do this then I won't bet money that the device works. I totally agree! I'm also suspicious of this company. I don't like the claims made by Steorn of getting energy from nothing. I don't like it because there are legitimate companies, scientists, and inventors working on legitimate energy technology utilizing conventional science theories. It's because of the countless claims of so-called "free energy" that have soured this industry. My main concern is the "Boy who cried wolf" syndrome! I know of legitimate scientists working on energy technology using conventional science. Do they have a chance of being heard??? How many times can the boy cry wolf before being ignored? Let's not allow such companies to destroy the chances of a legitimate company, scientist, or inventor! Paul > > > > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > > > > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Paul Yep, I don't know if it would really work. Might free energy exist? Perhaps. If so, does this device get it? Don't know. If I had the money, I might try and build one just out of curiosity but I doubt it would actually produce any free energy. BTW, if it doesn't work it won't sell, or if it does sell somehow, when it is shown not to work the company would simply get toasted and called a scam & fraud. > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The webiste is www.steorn.net. Probably because it doesn't work. Conservation of energy is a fundamental physical law, in fact as long as certain symmetry properties of the laws of physics are retained, it is impossible to violate (Noether's Theorem.). > What do you think of it? They claim they have a magnetic motor that puts > out more energy than it takes to run it, and they are asking for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The webiste is www.steorn.net. http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/fey1.htm |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.