Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Biology
BiologyBotanyMicrobiologyEntomologyEvolutionPaleontology
Chemistry
General ChemistryAnalytical ChemistryElectrochemistryOrganic Synthesis
Earth Science
GeologyMineralogyOceanographyMeteorologyEarthquakes
Physics
General PhysicsResearchRelativityParticle PhysicsElectromagnetismFusionOpticsAcousticsNew Theories

Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / January 2007



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

c-v|c+v

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
G. L. Bradford - 30 Jan 2007 10:09 GMT
--------------------------------------
|0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
--------------------------------------
|c+v =>     <= 0-v|0+v =>     <= c-v|
--------------------------------------

GLB
Sue... - 30 Jan 2007 10:59 GMT
> --------------------------------------
> |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> GLB
Sue... - 30 Jan 2007 11:01 GMT
> --------------------------------------
> |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> GLB

3 apples + 4 oranges = 3 apples + 4 oranges

Time-dependent Maxwell's equations
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/lectures.html
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node50.html

Sue...
zzbunker@netscape.net - 30 Jan 2007 16:13 GMT
> > --------------------------------------
> > |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> > GLB3 apples + 4 oranges = 3 apples + 4 oranges

    In IIBM-ese that's useally writte as
    [3,4] .* (apples equiv. organges) =>  3,4,5 Rightous Brothers
Triangle.

> Time-dependent Maxwell's equationshttp://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/lectures.htmlhttp://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node50.html
>
> Sue...
G. L. Bradford - 31 Jan 2007 12:40 GMT
>> --------------------------------------
>> |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Sue...

 All you proved is that you are perceptively blind to infinities, and that
just to begin with. Yes, I suppose to you it would look like "3 apples + 4
oranges."

 It seems that in no uncertain terms you told me above that velocity is in
the category of absolute. Whereas I am saying in no uncertain terms that it
is in the category of relative, excepting of course that c = c, 0 = 0 . . .
AND the middling space-per-time [in all four blocks] is both + and -
150,000kps. Which c, 0, and 150,000kps (v), are apples? And which c, 0, and
150,000kps (v), are oranges?

 But of course (infinity)]0 and c[(1) certainly are not relative, though
150,000kps (v) is most certainly relative. Maybe that difference is what you
meant by apples and oranges.

---------------------

 ** I here and now admit to yet another appallingly huge screw up I've been
making over the last months. With the common relationship in use, "An
infinitesimal relatively indistinguishable from zero (0)," I've been
relating 'infinite' to '1', as in, "Infinite relatively indistinguishable
from one (1)," therefore opposing infinite to infinitesimal....when in fact,
I see now, both infinite and infinitesimal are relatively indistinguishable
from zero (0). To mean: 0-dimensional. Each resides in the other, is both
internal and external to the other, and, in their cases, ultimately cancel
each other out to '0'[(infinity), leaving '1', some universal --  
cosmological -- 'constant'. Constants that are neither finite nor (infinite
/ infinitesimal), since they will always equal 'Unity' and '1' in any case
whatsoever (G = c = h-bar = k = ? = Unity = 1). But then '1' always stares
into the Abyss that always stares right back at it, '0'[(infinity). Thus the
fundamental Base is not '1' but '2'. In another context, something like,
"Big Brother / Sister state, meet God!" 'Finite' is relative (or "relative
to...."): "having bounds or limits; not too great or too small to be
measurable...subject to limitations or conditions, as of space, time,
circumstances, or the laws of nature: [man's finite existence on earth]"
(or, some people's quite finite- (quite limited-) mindedness ("mental
pygmy"-mindedness), etc.). **

---------------------

. . . <= -0|0+ =>  <= -1|+1 =>  <= -0|0+ =>  <= -1|+1 =>. . .

. . . <= +1|-1 =>  <= +0|0- =>  <= +1|-1 =>  <= +0|0- =>. . .

. . . <= -0|0+ =>  <= -1|+1 => . . .

. . . <= +1|-1 =>  <= +0|0- => . . .

<> <> <>

James Garner (looking at bullet dented sheriff's badge): "This badge must
have saved a man's life."

Harry Morgan: "It would have if it hadn't been for all those other bullets
flying in from everywhere!"

-- Support Your Local Sheriff

------------------------

GLB
Sue... - 31 Jan 2007 13:45 GMT
> >> --------------------------------------
> >> |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> 150,000kps (v) is most certainly relative. Maybe that difference is what you
> meant by apples and oranges.

No... I am telling you that the speed of light has no more to do
with the speed of its emitter than the speed of a bow wave has
to do with the motion of a boat.

Partcle models of light have only limited application and
the equation you posted is not one of them.

<<Now, does not the prize to Einstein imply
that the Academy recognised the particle
nature of light? The Nobel Committee says
that Einstein had found that the energy exchange
between matter and ether occurs by atoms emitting
or absorbing a quantum of energy,hv .

As a consequence of the new concept of light quanta
(in modern terminology photons) Einstein proposed the
law that an electron emitted from a substance by
monochromatic light with the frequency has to have
a maximum energy of E=hv-p, where p is the energy needed to
remove the electron from the substance. Robert Andrews
Millikan carried out a series of measurements over a
period of 10 years, finally confirming the validity of this
law in 1916 with great accuracy. Millikan had, however,
found the idea of light quanta to be unfamiliar and strange.

The Nobel Committee avoids committing itself to the
particle concept. Light-quanta or with modern terminology,
photons, were explicitly mentioned in the reports on
which the prize decision rested only in connection with
emission and absorption processes. The Committee says
that the most important application of Einstein's photoelectric
law and also its most convincing confirmation has come from
the use Bohr made of it in his theory of atoms, which explains
a vast amount of spectroscopic data. >>
http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/ekspong/index.html

Propagation in a dielectric medium
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node98.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_impedance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_space
http://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/ism/what.html

Sue...
The Ghost In The Machine - 31 Jan 2007 04:20 GMT
In sci.physics.relativity, G. L. Bradford
<glbrad01@insightbb.com>
wrote
on Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:09:53 -0500
<vIidnV1dnZD9hCLYnZ2dnUVZ_qarnZ2d@insightbb.com>:
> --------------------------------------
> |0+v =>     <= c-v|c+v =>     <= 0-v|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> GLB

If you're trying to draw something in Newtonian theory
that illustrates three observers throwing light at each
other, a better diagram might be something along the
following lines:

A => v                  O                v <= B
     a => c+v   c <= a'  b' => c   c+v <= b

where O, A, and B are observers, and a, a', b, and b'
are light rays, photons, or particles.

As it turns out, the diagram is incorrect anyway, since
what each will see are as follows, assuming everyone uses
a standardized light source with wavelength L0, frequency
F0, and speed c = L0 * F0.

A => v                  O                v <= B
     a => c     c <= a'  b' => c   c   <= b

Unfortunately this diagram lacks room to show what everyone is seeing,
but A will see a' coming at him with

FA_a' = F0 * sqrt(1+v/c)/sqrt(1-v/c)
LA_a' = L0 * sqrt(1-v/c)/sqrt(1+v/c)

A will also see b coming at him with

FA_b = F0 * sqrt(1+w/c)/sqrt(1-w/c)
LA_b = L0 * sqrt(1-w/c)/sqrt(1+w/c)

where it turns out w = 2v/(1+v^2/c^2).

It also turns out that

FA_b = F0 * (1+v/c)/(1-v/c)
LA_b = L0 * (1-v/c)/(1+v/c)

because of the problem setup, but this is by accident, though
a more general result is

FA_b = F0 * sqrt((1+u/c)*(1+v/c))/sqrt((1-u/c)*(1-v/c))
LA_b = L0 * sqrt((1-u/c)*(1-v/c))/sqrt((1+u/c)*(1+v/c))

if one assumes B is moving u with respect to O, instead of v.

I've no idea who the experimenters are, but someone did try to fire
decaying muons at about 0.2 c relative to the lab, and measure
the lightspeed of the photons those muons produced.  A different
experiment by Ives and Stilwell attempted to measure the time
dialation factor by, apparently, firing two lasers at moving ions
in an ion storage ring.

http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/rel/

Signature

#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Linux.  Because vaporware only goes so far.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.