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Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / January 2008Symmetry
Hi All, There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, and Time. In an universe made of anti-matter, the electric charge is reversed and positive charges are swapped with negatives. So in this anti-universe, physical laws are the same but inverted. Their electrodynamics is opposite to ours. Current and every parameter are going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. Does it mean that time is inverted as well? | Hi All, | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. | Does it mean that time is inverted as well? Only if mass is inverted too. With negative mass you'll have negative gravity - objects will repel each other. Run time in reverse and they'll attract. > | Hi All, > | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > gravity - objects will repel each other. Run time in reverse and they'll > attract. BZZT! Consider a baseball toss. It flies loose, arcs up and then down, then lands in the other guy's mitt. Time-reverse this: it flies loose, arcs up and then down, then lands in the first guy's mitt. Time-reversed, gravity still seems to attract. Put another way: would you expect the time reversal of a ball thrown and caught be a ball thrown and then accelerating up, up, and out of sight? Negative mass has problems of its own anyway. Unphysical things happen. An arrangement of positive and negative masses can accelerate, with no input of energy, until it's close to the speed of light. The only things in the universe that might sensibly be modeled in such a manner are particles like photons. Large structures with negative mass should not occur. Antimatter has positive mass anyway. Annihilating a positron and electron liberates some 511KeV gamma radiation. If antimatter had negative mass, a) the particle pair would accelerate away rapidly as per the above and b) when they did annihilate they'd simply disappear. The net mass of the system being zero, the energy available via annihilation would be zero per E=mc^2. So no gamma rays. If antimatter had negative mass, you'd be at a loss to explain the origin of those 511KeV gamma rays found everywhere from the spectra of many unstable nuclides to the galaxy's core and presently attributed to electron/positron annihilation.  SignatureThere's only four things you can be certain of: taxes, change, spam, and death. | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message news:a5aea0ec-8739-47d1-a597-167086a60470@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com... | > | Hi All, | > | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | | BZZT! [snip long-winded spam] BZZZT! I didn't say time WAS inverted, I said "Only if mass is inverted too". > | BZZT! > [snip long-winded spam] It wasn't spam. It was a single answer to a single post. > | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message > | > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > BZZZT! > I didn't say time WAS inverted, I said "Only if mass is inverted too". BZZZZT! It doesn't matter -- the universe certainly lacks "mass-negation symmetry", simply because of the whole attract vs. repel thing. Since time reversal doesn't reverse gravitational attraction and repulsion, this means the universe also lacks your suggested combined "time-and-mass-reversal symmetry". It IS thought to have CPT, symmetry under simultaneous flipping of electrical (and maybe other) charges, mirroring in a plane, and time reversal. This amounts to negating the charge, spin, and possibly other statistics of particles and reversing time. It IS also known that CP, symmetry under flipping charges and mirroring without any time reversal, is not an exact symmetry of the universe; CP-violating processes are known to occur in some hadron decays. (Any field-theory experts know if hypercharge and isospin fall under CP inversion, and perhaps also strong force color?) SignatureThere's only four things you can be certain of: taxes, change, spam, and death. | > | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message news:a5aea0ec-8739-47d1-a597-167086a60470@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com... | > | > | Hi All, | > | > | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] | BZZZZT! | It doesn't matter -- BZZZZZT! Right. That's why I won't bother to even read it. The OP's had his clue. > | > | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message > | > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > BZZZZZT! > Right. That's why I won't bother to even read it. The OP's had his clue. BZZZZZZT! You don't even seem to be bothering to read my posts now. Go get at least a high school physics education before you come back here. :P SignatureThere's only four things you can be certain of: taxes, change, spam, and death. | > | > | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message news:a5aea0ec-8739-47d1-a597-167086a60470@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com... | > | > | > | Hi All, | > | > | > | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] | You don't even seem to be bothering to read my posts now. Go get at | least a high school physics education before you come back here. :P BZZZZZZZT! Go away, little boy. *plonk* > | > | > | > <dailos.guerra.r@gmail.com> wrote in message > | > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Go away, little boy. > *plonk* BZZZZZZZZT! I'm probably older than you are. SignatureThere's only four things you can be certain of: taxes, change, spam, and death. > | Hi All, > | There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > gravity - objects will repel each other. Run time in reverse and they'll > attract. Ignorant idiot. That is the worst possible crap to say. Annalen der Physik 4 XLIX 769-822 (1916) Show Uncle Al where matter/antimatter, or any composition of matter, or any measurable property of matter makes a difference in gravitation. SignatureUncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether's_theorem > There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, > and Time. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_law > Hi All, > There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, > and Time. Bullshit. Bullshit your statement OTOH, and Noether's theorem coupling continuous symmetries to conserved observables OTOH, http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b5 Learn the differences between external (proper orthochronous Lorentz symmetries; discrete symmetries) and internal symmetries. Note that (electric) charge conjugation is an *internal* symmetry. > In an universe made of anti-matter, the electric charge is > reversed and positive charges are swapped with negatives. So in this > anti-universe, physical laws are the same but inverted. Bullshit. Bullshit your statement OTOH, and 1957 Nobel Prize/Physics OTOH, http://physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Parity/cover.html http://physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Parity/parity.html An anti-matter universe is not distinguishable from a matter universe internally. By remote comparison there is s small class of observable divergences. Locally, of course, the difference jumps out at you 4.18x10^12 Joule/23 mg each side. > Their > electrodynamics is opposite to ours. Current and every parameter are > going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. > Does it mean that time is inverted as well? No. Since you have no valid premises you have no defensible conclusions derived from them. There is no absolute definition of electric charge sign or rotation direction. An isolated antimatter universe is as indistinguishable from a matter universe as a lone electron or shoe is arbitrarily negative or left. Ben Franklin would have done future generations better if his arbitrary electron charge assignment had been positive not negative. That would have been convenient (particle flow and current flow being parallel rather than a antiparallel) but the resulting physics would have been identical. A charge sign or rotation direction is only meaningful by comparison. Example: 1) Construct a regular tetrahedron. 2) Color one vertex each yellow, blue, white, black. 3) Construct the mirror image colored tetrahedron. 4) The two tetrahedra are mirror images but not superposable - they are rigorously chiral. 5) Which is the left-handed tetrahedron? (If you are completely colorblind, four different shades of grey.) SignatureUncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 On 26 jan, 13:50, dailos.guerr...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi All, > There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. > Does it mean that time is inverted as well? You forgot about having to learn reading backwards ;-) André Michaud On 26 ene, 18:50, dailos.guerr...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi All, > There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. > Does it mean that time is inverted as well? I know It is only a curiosity nearby to science fiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPT_symmetry On Jan 26, 1:50 pm, dailos.guerr...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi All, > There are three basic symmetries in nature: Parity, Electric charge, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > going in the other direction. Then parity is mirrored and changed. > Does it mean that time is inverted as well? Actually, there are four (possibly more). You missed the symmetry of all biological organisms, including man. Not the line of symettry running from your crotch to your face, over your head, and down your back to your a.s. Pursuant to your line of thinking, a human would be rather bizarre in appearance were this bit of parity to be reversed. Idiot. Harry C. On 27 Jan, 23:15, "hhc...@yahoo.com" <hhc...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jan 26, 1:50 pm, dailos.guerr...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Harry C. I love you too. Dailos G. Photon and gravitons are supersymmetric. Great spin and almost6 perfectly round is their structure. Universe is saddle shaped and not all that symmetric. Our universe is negative. Bert |
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