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Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / July 2008



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Gravity & inertia are not related

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Osmium - 07 Jul 2008 22:17 GMT
An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  That is
is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
the object is first "dropped" gravity causes it to change speed, so at
every point along the way gravity is operative and so causes an
increase.  Only if gravity operated only at the beginning and then was
turned off would we expect the speed not to change.

Consider pushing so hard on an object as to get a pressure that is
equal to the pressure felt by an object resisting the pull of gravity.
Of course we will move this first object at the same changing speed as
a body in a gravitational field would move if the "pressure" of the
supporting surface is removed.
What's so mysterious about that?
(And why is there inertia at all? why does the body resist?  Because
speed equals increased mass and increased energy (yeah, same thing)
and these are not free.)

We intentionally supply an accelleration pressure of one G and then
are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
the ones who made it come out that way.
Sanforized - 07 Jul 2008 23:08 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  

This premise is incorrect.
Osmium - 08 Jul 2008 16:20 GMT
> > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>
> This premise is incorrect.

Unless it is stopped---which I think I mentioned in the first post.
An object in orbit is accellerating.  An object in free fall "feels"
no gravity.  It is the same as an object not subject to inertia.
The point of the first post was that if you push on an object with the
same force the object is subject to while on the ground, ie one G, why
then you get a force of one G on the object, per force.  You then say
that G and inertia are the same----of course they are here, you made
it come out that way.
Sanforized - 08 Jul 2008 23:46 GMT
>>>An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>>
>>This premise is incorrect.
>
> Unless it is stopped---which I think I mentioned in the first post.

Then you should not have placed a period indicating you had
a complete thought in the sentence.

snip

If the first sentence isn't correctly stated what follows
isn't worth discussing.
PD - 10 Jul 2008 21:35 GMT
> > > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>
> > This premise is incorrect.
>
> Unless it is stopped---which I think I mentioned in the first post.

Actually, that's not required either. Consider something falling at
terminal speed. It is not at rest, it is not accelerating, it is
subject to a gravitational field.
Osmium - 10 Jul 2008 23:21 GMT
> > > > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> terminal speed. It is not at rest, it is not accelerating, it is
> subject to a gravitational field.

Why is there a terminal velocity?  Doesn't that violate relativity's
"one perspective" or whatever it is called, rule?
Greg Neill - 10 Jul 2008 23:38 GMT
>>>>> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. o?=
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Why is there a terminal velocity?  Doesn't that violate relativity's
> "one perspective" or whatever it is called, rule?

Parachutists will be devatated to learn this.
NoEinstein - 17 Jul 2008 03:17 GMT
> > > > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> terminal speed. It is not at rest, it is not accelerating, it is
> subject to a gravitational field.

Dear PD:  Yes!  An object impacting air at a high enough velocity will
stop acceleration.  When that happens there is just the uniform force
of gravity acting on the object.  All of its (terminal) velocity
occurred BEFORE it reached such!  What you just admitted is that all
objects begin with a KE = their own weight.  That disproves Coriolis,
Einstein, SR and GR.  Way to go, fellow!  — NoEinstein —
BURT - 17 Jul 2008 06:00 GMT
> > > > > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �

A circular orbit has no acceleration or deceleration.

> > > > This premise is incorrect.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> objects begin with a KE = their own weight.  That disproves Coriolis,
> Einstein, SR and GR.  Way to go, fellow!  — NoEinstein —
ESKI - 26 Jul 2008 21:18 GMT
> > > > > An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate. �
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> objects begin with a KE = their own weight.  That disproves Coriolis,
> Einstein, SR and GR.  Way to go, fellow!  — NoEinstein —

Check out the Oscillator/Substance Model of Everything, which says
something of the same and gives a sensible, simlple explanation of
"Gravity"  as well as "Mass," and a number of other things. (The model
is quite new, although it turns oot to be a logical of Max Planck's
ideas which were abandoned for Einstein's approach.)
Jamie - 08 Jul 2008 01:35 GMT
L@@K!  An AOL fucktard posting from Google!

> An object subject to a gravitational field must blah blah blah me a dork

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Sanforized - 09 Jul 2008 23:20 GMT
> L@@K!  An AOL fucktard posting from Google!
>
>>An object subject to a gravitational field must blah blah blah me a dork
>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

He's probably been posting since before you were born.
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 09 Jul 2008 23:55 GMT
In sci.physics Sanforized <sanforized@naol.con> wrote:

> > L@@K!  An AOL fucktard posting from Google!
> >
> >>An object subject to a gravitational field must blah blah blah me a dork
> >
> > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

> He's probably been posting since before you were born.

Is that why he posts like someone with dementia?

Signature

Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Sanforized - 10 Jul 2008 02:41 GMT
> In sci.physics Sanforized <sanforized@naol.con> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Is that why he posts like someone with dementia?

Let me start this by telling you I usually disagree with
the guy, however.....

Your opinion is noted, spindled, mutilated, and discarded,
and that's giving you a lot more attention than you deserve.

Thanks for playing.
Osmium - 10 Jul 2008 04:08 GMT
> j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> > In sci.physics Sanforized <sanfori...@naol.con> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

He's probably been posting since before you were born.

I think this is hitting below the belt and violates usenet etiquitte
LIKE SHOUTING DOES.
NoEinstein - 10 Jul 2008 21:32 GMT
> > j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> > > In sci.physics Sanforized <sanfori...@naol.con> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Osmium:  Hang in there, and keep seeking truths!  The only thing
that matters is what you think of yourself.  — NoEinstein —
PD - 10 Jul 2008 21:33 GMT
> Dear Osmium:  Hang in there, and keep seeking truths!  The only thing
> that matters is what you think of yourself.  — NoEinstein —

Ah, that explains a lot. You think quite a bit of yourself, as it
turns out.

PD
Osmium - 10 Jul 2008 23:18 GMT
> > > j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> > > > In sci.physics Sanforized <sanfori...@naol.con> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks. The only thing that matters is not being ignored.  And I can
safely say that the denizens of ROM cannot ignore my posts even they
wanted to.  I will post something tonight to demonstrate my power.
PD - 11 Jul 2008 01:28 GMT
> > > > j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> > > > > In sci.physics Sanforized <sanfori...@naol.con> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Thanks. The only thing that matters is not being ignored.  

This also explains a lot.

> And I can
> safely say that the denizens of ROM cannot ignore my posts even they
> wanted to.  I will post something tonight to demonstrate my power.
Sanforized - 11 Jul 2008 02:17 GMT
>>>>>j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>>safely say that the denizens of ROM cannot ignore my posts even they
>>wanted to.  I will post something tonight to demonstrate my power.

The Mitch syndrome is catching?
ESKI - 11 Jul 2008 21:06 GMT
> >>>>>j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

If one goes by the "Oscillator/substance view of reality" then
gravitation is a result of the difference in pressure between two
entities and the pressure  of that part of the substance which is not
between the two entities,  A "gravitational field" by this view is a
fictional force and the "field" ceases to exist when the entities in
question merge.

Oh, incidentally, i see this is a Mensa posting group,  I have to
chuckle at some of the supposedly brilliant things that show up, such
as "Mensa is a one criterion membership organization."  All one needs
is a little over a three-sigma above the mena I.Q.,  Oh, yeah?  You
also need the resources to be able to pay the membership fees........
NoEinstein - 10 Jul 2008 21:29 GMT
On Jul 9, 6:55 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> In sci.physics Sanforized <sanfori...@naol.con> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Dear Jim:  Don't rate Osmium solely by what he doesn't know.  It is
the questions that he is asking that show an inquisitive mind.  If
enough people start asking the right questions, the state of science
'might' begin to improve.  — NoEinstein —
Ian Parker - 08 Jul 2008 12:05 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  That is
> is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

No we are not. If gravity arises out of the curvature of space (the
General Relativity picture) then they are the same. Solar gravity and
the Earth's acceleration. Clearly experimental verification to greater
and greater accuracy is not really enough.

http://www.kfki.hu/eotvos/onehund.html  100 years of the Eotvos
experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6s_experiment This shows
the accuracy of modern experiments

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/

These experiments intend to get down to 10^-13 - a considerable
achievement. The academics at Washington university do not dispute the
basic GR equivalence. What they are looking for is a short range
gravitational force. Now string theory (if you believe in it) predicts
that gravity will obey an 8th power law at short distances because of
the extra dimensions. ST tells us it might be possible to have sub
atomic black holes in the lab.

 - Ian Parker
Sue... - 08 Jul 2008 13:29 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  That is
> is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

"Gravity there makes inertia here"
--E. Mach
"Kill the Wabbit, Kill the Wabbit, Kill the Wabbit"
--E. Fudd

"The Origin of Gravity"
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0107015v6

Sue...
srp2inc@gmail.com - 08 Jul 2008 17:00 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accelerate.

Exact.

> That is is must constantly increase speed.

Or tends to apply pressure (weight) ff it is prevented from
increasing its velocity, just like bodies lying at the surface
of the Earth. Weight is downwards pressure applied by
bodies since they are prevented from moving further
towardsthe center of the Earth while continuously being
subjected to gravity.

> This is easy to see because when the object is first
> "dropped" gravity causes it to change speed, so at
> every point along the way gravity is operative and so
> causes an increase.

> Only if gravity operated only at the beginning and then
> was turned off would we expect the speed not to change.

Right. This would be an impulse.

> Consider pushing so hard on an object as to get a pressure that is
> equal to the pressure felt by an object resisting the pull of gravity.
> Of course we will move this first object at the same changing speed as
> a body in a gravitational field would move if the "pressure" of the
> supporting surface is removed.
> What's so mysterious about that?

Nothing. This is physical reality.

> (And why is there inertia at all? why does the body resist?  Because
> speed equals increased mass and increased energy (yeah, same thing)
> and these are not free.)

Inertia is related to velocity, which itself is related to energy in
excess
of rest mass (for massive particles).

For photons, the velocity being constant, the inertia is directly
related to
the amount of energy making up the photon.

> We intentionally supply an accelleration pressure of one G and then
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

I for one am not amazed by it. This is just observed reality.

André Michaud
Igor - 08 Jul 2008 18:42 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  That is
> is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

Maybe after you graduate from elementary school, you'll see things a
bit differently.
NoEinstein - 09 Jul 2008 19:20 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.  That is
> is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

Dear Osmium:  Gravity can, also, cause objects to decelerate.  Since
the "force of gravity" is exactly equal to near-Earth objects’
WEIGHTS, then 'g' is just a continuous downward force.  Such uniform
forces will cause a UNIFORM acceleration of 32.147 feet per second
EACH second.  All uniform accelerations will cause an ADDITIVE
increase in VELOCITY of 32.174 feet EACH second.  If a plot is made of
the Distance of fall vs. Time, such curve will be an inverted
parabola.  The velocity corresponds, exactly, to the SLOPE of such
parabola at the point in Time in question.
    Major errors were made by Coriolis—who gave us the 1830 equation
for kinetic energy: KE = 1/2 mv^2.  You should note the similarity
between the latter equation and Einstein's E = mc^2.  In fact,
Einstein used Coriolis as the basis for SR, but WITHOUT verifying
whether Coriolis's equation was correct.  Such, most certainly, is not
correct!
    The Law of the Conservation of Energy states: Except for some
atomic phenomena, energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
Coriolis's equation, above, has KE increasing exponentially with the
time of fall.  For such to be true, the FORCE causing the fall must be
increasing exponentially, too.  As you must realize, UNIFORM forces
are associated with additive, or LINEAR increases in the VELOCITY (of
the falling object).  So, the Law of the Conservation of Energy is
violated when one says that KE is increasing exponentially, when the
FORCE acting on the object remains constant!
    What the above means is: Albert Einstein had ZERO idea what
acceleration is!  His ignorance is manifested in his SR 'notion':
"There isn't enough energy in the entire Universe to cause even a
speck of matter to travel to velocity 'c'." (sic!)  The later quote is
patently untrue!  In about one year's time, by applying a rocket
engine force = to the rocket's weight, such will reach 'c'.  Einstein
believed that "acceleration" is a PARABOLIC increase in velocity.
(sic!)  The latter would actually be an acceleration-of-the-
acceleration.
    It’s easy to understand how a MORON like Einstein got the wrong
idea about acceleration.  He looked at the ERRONEOUS way of defining
'g', which was: g = 32.174 feet per second SQUARED…  And he saw that
Coriolis was claiming that KE increases exponentially.  And he saw
that Newton was claimed that the force of gravity is inversely
proportional to the SQUARE of the distance between the objects’
centers.  All THREE of those statements are WRONG—as those equations
relate to "universal" gravity!
    Something as simple as using the wrong FORM for defining 'g' has
resulted in over a century of the DARK AGES of Einstein, in all of
science!  Please know that my disproofs of SR and GR are total and
complete!  Those interested can read the following links.  —
NoEinstein —

Where Angels Fear to Fall
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/1e3e426fff6a5894
/898737b3de57d9e6?hl=en&lnk=st&q=Where+Angels+Fear+to+Fall#898737b3de57d9e6

Cleaning Away Einstein’s Mishmash
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/5d847a9cb50de7f0
/739aef0aee462d26?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#739aef0aee462d26

Dropping Einstein Like a Stone
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/989e16c59967db2b
?hl=en
#
Sue... - 11 Jul 2008 00:06 GMT
> We intentionally supply an accelleration pressure of one G and then
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.

Try this:

The attractive force of  the bodies in the universe pull a mass
in all directions or isotropically.    That is inertia.

If one mass is significantly close to another, they
spoil that isotropy for each other.

See animatitions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass

<< E. Mach demanded a modification of the
law of inertia in the sense that the

inertia should be interpreted as an
acceleration resistance of the bodies
against one another and not against "space".
This interpretation governs the expectation

that accelerated bodies have concordant
accelerating action in the same

sense on other bodies (acceleration induction).

This interpretation is even more
plausible according to general relativity

which eliminates the distinction between
inertial and gravitational effects.

It amounts to stipulating that, apart
from the arbitrariness governed by the

free choice of coordinates, the
gm v -field shall be completely determined
by the matter. Mach's stipulation is favoured

in general relativity by the circumstance

that acceleration induction in accordance
with the gravitational field equations really
exists, although of such slight intensity
that direct detection by mechanical experiments
is out of the question. >>

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1921/einstein-lecture.html

Sue...
BURT - 26 Jul 2008 21:43 GMT
> An object subject to a gravitational field must accellerate.

It doesn't have to fall.

> That is
> is must constantly increase speed.  This is easy to see because when
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> are amazed that gravity and accelleration seem identical---but we are
> the ones who made it come out that way.
 
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