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Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / July 2008



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Planck's Constant for protons

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Tom Potter - 10 Jul 2008 15:49 GMT
This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.

Let us consider a system composed of one electron and one proton.

1. Let M(P) = the mass of the proton.
2. Let M(E) the mass of the electron.
3. Let C = a universal distance per time constant. ( The speed of light. )
4. Two bodies interact about a common point in a common time.
  The common point is the center of mass of the system
  and the common time is the period of the system.
  Let T(C) = the common period divided by 2 times pi
                 = L(C) / C

  where L(C) is the distance light travels during one radian of
  interaction of the electron-proton system.

5. Assume that  K = a universal distance per mass constant.
  K = 1.0585382 x 10^13 meters per kilogram for E-M interactions.

6. Assume that fine structure(E) = ( M(P) * K / L(C) ) ^1/3
then    fine structure(E)^0 * L(C) = 1 / ( 2 * Rydberg Constant )
and     fine structure(E)^1 * L(C) = 2 * pi * Bohr Radius
and     fine structure(E)^2 * L(C) = Compton's wavelength
and     fine structure(E)^3 * L(C) = 2 * pi * classical electron radius
                                  = M(P) * K

As interactions are symmetrical about the common center of mass, we can
define a fine structure constant for the proton and obtain the following
equations:

       fine structure(P) = ( M(E) * K / L(C) ) ^1/3
       fine structure(P)^0 * L(C) = 1 / ( 2 * Rydberg Constant )
       fine structure(P)^1 * L(C) = 2 * pi * Bohr Radius(proton)
       fine structure(P)^2 * L(C) = Compton's wavelength(proton)
       fine structure(P)^3 * L(C) = 2 * pi * classical radius(proton)
                                  = M(E) * K

       fine structure(P)^3 * M(P) =  fine structure(E)^3 * M(E)

7. Let h(E) be the Planck's Constant for an electron.
8. Let h(P) be the Planck's Constant for a proton.
Note that:

       M(E) * M(P) * K^2 = fine(E)^3 * fine(P)^3 * L(C)^2
                         = h(E) * fine(P) * K / C
                         = h(P) * fine(P) * K / C

Also note that:
       h(E) * K / C = fine(P)^3 * fine(E)^2 * L(C)^2
                    = M(E) * K * fine(E)^2 * L(C)
and symmetrically:
       h(P) * K / C = fine(E)^3 * fine(P)^2 * L(C)^2
                    = M(P) * K * fine(P)^2 * L(C)

Equations showing the simplest relationships between Planck's Constant
and the Fine structure constant:
       fine(P) * h(P) = M(P) * M(E) * K * C
       fine(E) * h(E) = M(P) * M(E) * K * C

Note: As K and C are universal constants, and as we are considering rest
     masses to be constant, h(X) and fine(X) must vary reciprocally when a
     system such as a hydrogen atom is changing states.

The relationship between the orbital velocity of a body and the fine
structure constant is:
       sine(X) = velocity(X) / C = fine(X) * charge ratio

Comments:

1. The common period is associated with Rydberg's constant.
  In other words, the distance symmetrical to both bodies
  is the reciprocal of Rydberg's constant. The other distances
  ( Comptons wavelength, etc. ) relate to a particular body.

2. If we assume that rest masses are constants, we have to acknowledge that
  the h's and fine structure constants must vary for a system to
  accommodate change.

 The simplest system would consider the rest masses
  to be constant, the distance common to the masses L(C) to be an
  independent variable and all properties to be dependent variables.
  Note that the distance L(C) is related to the common period of the system.

3. Schrödinger's Equation would be symmetrical to both the electron and the
  proton if were based on the mass products rather than a "constant"
  associated with only one of the bodies. The equation works because the
  incoming and outgoing frequencies are common to both parties to an
  interaction, but the equation does not provide a symmetrical look at the
  classical system absorbing or emitting the frequencies. Schrödinger's
  Equation, like Planck's Constant is biased in favor of the electron.

4. I emphasized distances, rather than more fundamental times and angular
  displacements, in order to more clearly show the relationships between
  the common physical constants.

  The more fundamental approach would be to use the time intervals
   associated with the distances, as spaces are fundamentally time intervals.

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Androcles - 10 Jul 2008 17:01 GMT
This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.

Let us consider a system composed of one electron and one proton.

1. Let M(P) = the mass of the proton.
2. Let M(E) the mass of the electron.

========================================
What evidence do you have for an electron having mass?
"Of course it does" doesn't qualify; that's faith, a form of dingleberryism.
I want a rigorous definition.
========================================
john - 10 Jul 2008 17:34 GMT
> This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
> and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I want a rigorous definition.
> ========================================

In this system, the proton has all the mass (or most)
[since it is a SpaceTime vortex, it blocks all energy
from travelling through it, including *incoming gravitational
Impulses*
so it is a very big gravitational "source" #sink#, really]
and the electron has all the energy (or most)
[since it consists of all the virtual charge pairs realized from the
region of the SpaceTime vortex and ejected in the jets to form
electron matter *in a disc* around it]. (Google 'flat' electrons.)
So you figure it out.

John
Galaxy Model
Androcles - 10 Jul 2008 17:54 GMT
| > This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
| > and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
| In this system, the proton has all the mass (or most)
| [since it is a SpaceTime vortex,

Have you told Captain Kirk about your SpaceTime vortex drivel?
Perhaps you didn't understand my question, let me rephrase it...

What f.cking EVIDENCE do you have for an electron having mass,
you half-baked ignorant CRETIN?
hanson - 10 Jul 2008 17:02 GMT
or in
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/5f2cde50da8277f1?hl=en
This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
in a system composed of one electron and one proton.
[snip. Ssee whole learned litany here]
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/5f2cde50da8277f1?hl=en

hanson wrote:
'I am pleased to see that Tom Potter" has studied and
interpreted, for his own benefit, the Bohr-Hartree model,
that was in vogue around 1920.   --- It is doubtful though,
Tom, that this will get any traction since that is really old
hat.  Your litany on the Finestructure constant is only a
**partial** rumination of the "Alpha cascade" which spans
all domains, from the "here" H-Bohr model out to the Hubble
constant that yields pictures about things very "far & away".

More interesting would have been if you'd pontificated on
the "Why" we notice that at every one these "alpha" steps a
significant empirical fundamental physical constant appears...

To me that is simply because nature is self-similar over any
and all ranges of its manifestations...---  What do you say?

Keep at it, Tom. Remember though the un-dying words
of Professor James Driscoll: "A really new thought does
occur only very seldom".. which in itself is an observation
that is a reflection of the underlying principle of universal
self-similarity.
Take care, Tom,
hanson

If you are interested, google my archive for "Alpha cascade"
which includes a thread in which I discuss these things with
UCLA's  astro-physicist Ned Wright
Tom Potter - 11 Jul 2008 12:51 GMT
> or in
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/5f2cde50da8277f1?hl=en
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> which includes a thread in which I discuss these things with
> UCLA's  astro-physicist Ned Wright

As you give me difficult problems,
and a very astrute critic,
I'll have to carefully compose a reply,
and get back to you.

The Einstein Dingleberrys are easy
to reply to compared to you and Andro.

Signature

Tom Potter

http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
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http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

Uncle Al - 10 Jul 2008 17:13 GMT
> This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
> and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.
[snip crap]

  1) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b5
  2) Idiot.

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Tom Potter - 11 Jul 2008 11:56 GMT
>> This article makes rigorous definitions of a few constants,
>> and discusses what physical properties should be considered invariant.
> [snip crap]
>
>   1) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#b5
>   2) Idiot.

Although I was disappointed to see that my pal Uncle Al
referred to a laundry list of definitions to make his point,

whereas I posted numbers that can be verified
and equations that can be falsified,

I was pleased to see that Uncle Al's laundry list
did confirm the points I made in my post,

and I was sadden to see that my pal Uncle Al
did not seem to comprehend that his laundry list,
confirmed that the numbers and equations
I used in my posts can be expressed in laymen language
such as Uncle Al presented in his laundry list.

It may be that Uncle Al is using all of his grey matter
growing fist size diamonds, and working on his theory
about chirality and he is unable to cope with new input.

Hopefully after Uncle Al sells a few of his diamonds,
he will have the leisure time
to attempt to falsify my equations.

Signature

Tom Potter

http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
--
Tom Potter

 
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