electric car companies engaged in planned obsolescence???

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strollivarious@yahoo.com - 28 Aug 2008 18:31 GMT

any comments on the following:

ELECTRIC CAR COMPANIES ENGAGING IN PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE???

Every major electric car on today's market is equipped with only a
110volt a.c. electrical plug for plugging into house current (the
electric company) in order to charge a BUILT-IN battery pack.

The companies know that as soon as enough of their cars are sold, and
thousands of them are plugged into the grid at night- this will
overload the grid and cause power outages.(witness summer outages in
California and the east due to airconditioning, hot water, etc
demands)

These outages and the resulting necessity of enlarging the grid
capacity will cause electric rates to rise dramatically!

The result is that more and more electric vehicle (EV) owners will opt
to install their own home photovoltaic systems and/or wind electric
generators to charge their car. This will mean a need for a REMOVABLE
BATTERY PACK- so that one pack can be charged during daylight and/or
windy conditions, while driving the car on the other pack. When the
car returns home, the depleted pack is simply quickly exchanged for
the charged one(with a wheeled dolly, if necessary) . This ability to
quickly exchange packs means that owners will have the charging
capacity at home to maintain a readily available charged battery pack.

Guess who will be raking in the dollars for making this retrofit!?
Not only the car retrofit, but sales of battery packs, pv panels and
electrical connectors to fit their car!

The car companies can make a removable battery pack NOW!

If this makes sense to you- send this email to the following EV
companies:

(I will provide email addresses in my internet post)

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jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 28 Aug 2008 18:55 GMT

> The result is that more and more electric vehicle (EV) owners will opt
> to install their own home photovoltaic systems and/or wind electric
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> quickly exchange packs means that owners will have the charging
> capacity at home to maintain a readily available charged battery pack.

Most people can't change a light bulb properly.

Expect a rash of electrocutions and battery explosions if anyone is
dumb enough to sell such a thing as an owner changeable battery.

Signature

Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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Mike Jr. - 28 Aug 2008 18:55 GMT

On Aug 28, 1:31 pm, strollivari...@yahoo.com wrote:

> any comments on the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> California and the east due to airconditioning, hot water, etc
> demands)

An ORNL study says not to worry.
http://www.ornl.gov/info/press_releases/get_press_release.cfm?ReleaseNumber=mr20
080312-02

"The best-case scenario occurs when vehicles are plugged in after 10
p.m., when the electric load on the system is at a minimum and the
wholesale price for energy is least expensive. Depending on the power
demand per household, charging vehicles after 10 p.m. would require,
at lower demand levels, no additional power generation or, in higher-
demand projections, just eight additional power plants nationwide. "

> These outages and the resulting necessity of enlarging the grid
> capacity will cause electric rates to rise dramatically!
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> quickly exchange packs means that owners will have the charging
> capacity at home to maintain a readily available charged battery pack.

Battery packs are very expensive. Can you afford two? BTW, the wind
still blows at night even though I can't imagine very many home owners
opting to install a wind mill.

There might be ways to save solar energy for use at night.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3145191020080731?sp=true

One last thought. Battery packs that are easy to remove are also easy
to steal.

--Mike Jr

> Guess who will be raking in the dollars for making this retrofit!?
> Not only the car retrofit, but sales of battery packs, pv panels and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> (I will provide email addresses in my internet post)

Reply to this Message

Uncle Al - 28 Aug 2008 19:02 GMT

> any comments on the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 110volt a.c. electrical plug for plugging into house current (the
> electric company) in order to charge a BUILT-IN battery pack.

It would be much better to leave the battery pack at home when
driving, eh? Hey stooopid - would you trust a person like you with a
240V connection?

> The companies know that as soon as enough of their cars are sold, and
> thousands of them are plugged into the grid at night- this will
> overload the grid and cause power outages.(witness summer outages in
> California and the east due to airconditioning, hot water, etc
> demands)

"Thousands"? You can't do a Fermi problem, git. Gee - if it were a
three phase 240V line, no problem?

> These outages and the resulting necessity of enlarging the grid
> capacity will cause electric rates to rise dramatically!

Imagine that. If a finite resource whose public availability is
further constrained by government regulation is hugely oversubscribed,
its price will skyrocket. Uncle Al hears rumors that an "internal
combustion" engine using C8 hydrocarbon fractions is being quietly
researched. No more huge electric bills! The necessary juice comes
right out of the ground.

> The result is that more and more electric vehicle (EV) owners will opt
> to install their own home photovoltaic systems and/or wind electric
> generators to charge their car.

At night.

[snip rest]

Signature

Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

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The Ghost In The Machine - 30 Aug 2008 19:50 GMT

In sci.physics, strollivarious@yahoo.com
<strollivarious@yahoo.com>
wrote
on Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:31:54 -0700 (PDT)
<2790ad9c-0017-480e-98a5-0467add1bebb@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:

> any comments on the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> (I will provide email addresses in my internet post)

There's a fair number of issues in exchanging a 100
kW-capable power source. At 12 volts, that's 8,300 amps
of pure DC electric deadliness. I doubt they do it quite
that way but would have to look.

Far better to create a fuel that can burn in air; the
amount of power per kg of fuel is about 5 times the amount
of power per kg of sealed battery, very roughly speaking.
(It's actually more than that if one's discussing
lead-acid.) Of course, we can also extract the raw
materials of said fuel from the ground, and refine it --
which is what we're doing now.

I am hopeful we can exchange fossil gasoline for biofuels
or photosynthesized hydrogen (though the last has some
major problems).

An estimate of the power requirements might be had by
simply using 121 MJ/gallon, 30 mpg [*], 15,000 miles per year,
and the current population of California, maybe multiplied
by about 4/5 (since anyone younger than about 18 isn't
about to drive a car).

It turns out there are 36.5M people in CA, so...

36.5M * 15000 m/year / 30 mpg * 121 MJ/gal / 3600000 J/kWh
= 613.4 billion kWh/year as an extremely rough estimate.

Divide that by the number of hours per year, and one gets
70 gigaWatts. That's about 1.4 times California's current
electrical capacity (which is about 50,000 megawatts,
according to CAISO), and one also has to adjust for
charging inefficiencies, battery manufacturing costs,
and other such.

[*] I'd have to look up the fleet mileage average for cars
in CA, and it's probably lower than 30 mpg. Adjust
accordingly. ;-)

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Cwatters - 01 Sep 2008 00:27 GMT

> In sci.physics, strollivarious@yahoo.com
> <strollivarious@yahoo.com>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> thousands of them are plugged into the grid at night- this will
>> overload the grid and cause power outages

a) They don't plan to sell that many electric cars for quite a long time.

b) Electricity is cheap at night..

c) You might be right.

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Benj - 30 Aug 2008 20:35 GMT

On Aug 28, 1:31 pm, strollivari...@yahoo.com wrote:

<Snip idiocy>

> When the
> car returns home, the depleted pack is simply quickly exchanged for
> the charged one(with a wheeled dolly, if necessary) . This ability to
> quickly exchange packs means that owners will have the charging
> capacity at home to maintain a readily available charged battery pack.

A removable battery is about the only decent idea in this post...
except for the technical details of how handle the heavy thing and the
high current plug to plug it in and the dangerous voltages that may be
involved. One electrocution of a car owner ends the idea forever.

<snip rest of idiocy>

Wiindmills => 19th century technology. Are we pumping water for cows
here? Ride a horse to work! Worked before. Renewable biofuel powered!
Minimal carbon footprint if they don't fart too much!

Solar panels. How big is your yard? How big is your wallet? Moron.

Power grid charging. Makes great sense when restricted to non-peak
hours. Will tend to keep grid at more uniform capacity. Of course
control of charging has to be given to electric company! So why do
hybrids not come with charging plugs?

All other "technology" is pie in the sky unworkable nonsense. A switch
from oil to coal by electric cars does make great sense! If only
someone would develop a cheap effective long life battery pack!
Anyone?

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Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / August 2008

electric car companies engaged in planned obsolescence???