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Natural Science Forum / Physics / General Physics / August 2008



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"Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?"

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Anig - 30 Aug 2008 14:22 GMT
"Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?"

    The validity of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics seems to be
beyond question. Under the first law, the total energy content of a closed
system must remain constant. Under the second law, the availability of that
energy for useful purposes must always decrease or remain constant. In
effect, the First Law of Thermodynamics states that you can't win and the
Second Law states that, furthermore, you can't break even. The First Law of
Thermodynamics is unquestionably true, energy can neither be created nor
destroyed, General Relativity not withstanding. The Second Law of
Thermodynamics stands on less firm ground because it is a law based upon
statistics. As such, it is in the same category as an actuarial table. An
insurance company can predict quite accurately how many people will die in a
given year. They cannot
predict who those people will be. Statistical laws are valid for large
numbers of events; they become less significant as the number of events is
reduced. As an example, if one patronizes a casino, he might initially win a
large sum of money playing a slot machine, but if he continues to play he
not only will give all his winnings back to the casino, he will sustain a
significant loss. The question then arises as to whether it is possible to
by-pass the Second Law of
Thermodynamics though the use of nanomachines. (A nanomachine is a mechanism
whose significant dimensions are measured in nanometers, the size scale of
atoms.)

    One who observes Brownian motion in a microscope might reasonably
conclude that,in principle at least, a nanomachine could be built which
would bypass the Second Law of Thermodynamics. When a liquid containing
microscopic particles is observed, the particles are seen to be in
continuous (Brownian) motion. That motion is caused by random thermal
impacts between the molecules of the liquid and the particles. If the
thermal motion of water molecules can produce a visibly observable motion in
particles which are at least 10^15 times as massive, it certainly not
unreasonable to believe that suitable nanomachines could organize the effect
to produce a useful mechanical output. The postulated nanomachines would
then be able to export energy to the outside environment that it obtained by
reducing the temperature of the liquid. The exported energy would be
converted to heat and raise the temperature of the external environment as
the output performed useful work. The resultant temperature difference
between the environment and the liquid will then cause the energy which had
done useful work to flow back into the liquid to return it to its original
temperature and allows the process to continue indefinitely.

    James Clark Maxwell proposed a hypothetical perpetual motion machine,
known as Maxwell's Demon, which was not proven to be THEORETICALLY
unworkable for 75 years. In that machine, Maxwell imagined that a demon
controlled a microscopic gate between two gas filled chambers. Making use of
the fact that, in a gas, the velocity of the molecules is random and that
the temperature of the gas is determined by the mean velocity of those
molecules, Maxwell proposed the concept that, if an appropriate demon
existed, he could sense the speed of molecules approaching the gate and open
the gate only when a fast molecule approached it from one side or when a
slow molecule approached it from the other side. By operating the gate in
this manner, the demon would sort the molecules so that one chamber
contained fast molecules and the other chamber contained slow molecules.
Since the temperature of a gas is determined by the mean velocity of its
molecules, such a process will maintain a temperature difference between the
chambers that can be exploited to produce useful work in a direct violation
of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It took 75 years before a rigorous
proof was found which was able to show that the energy required for
Maxwell's Demon to identify the fast and slow molecules and allow the gate
to operate was at least as great as the energy that could be released and
Maxwell's Demon was shown to be an unworkable concept.

    There is a modification to the concept of Maxwell's Demon for which
there is, at least as yet, no valid theoretical objection. Suppose that the
two chambers of the Maxwell's Demon example no longer rely on a demon but
are separated by a diffusion membrane having a permeability from side A to
side B which is higher than the permeability from side B to side A. The
energy required to allow the membrane to make the decisions it needs to make
in order for it to function in this manner is available in the kinetic
energy of the gas molecules passing through it. In diffusing through the
membrane, molecules can provide the energy needed by being slowed from their
average room temperature velocity of about 1300 feet per second to a much
lower exit velocity. The lower velocity of the gas leaving the membrane
means that side B is colder than the ambient temperature. The loss of
kinetic energy by the molecules as they pass though membrane provides the
energy required to operate the differential diffusion mechanism in the
membrane pores, and the membrane becomes warmer than the ambient
temperature. If the surface areas are sufficiently large, the temperature of
the gas on both sides of the membrane and of the membrane itself must remain
close to the temperature of the environment. As a result, the pressure in
chamber B will be higher than the pressure in chamber A. That difference in
pressure can be used to operate a turbine and provide useful output power.
As the gas flowing through the turbine produces output power, the chambers
are cooled below the ambient temperature and energy flows from the
environment to the chambers to replace the energy delivered by the turbine.
The arrangement would extract useful energy from its environment in direct
contradiction to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. See
http://einsteinhoax.com/cf153.gif.

    Conceptually, the membrane might be constructed with pores that were
covered by pring-loaded trapdoors, as shown in
http://einsteinhoax.com/cf154.gif. In this illustration, a molecule
represented by a ball approaches the right side of the membrane at a
velocity, which was appropriate to its temperature, knock the trapdoor open,
and pass through it. A similar molecule approaching the trapdoor from the
left side would bounce back and not pass through to the right side. When the
molecule on the right passed through the trapdoor, it would lose most of its
kinetic energy to the trapdoor and exit at a low velocity. As a result, the
trapdoor and the membrane would be heated and the molecule which passed
though it would be cooled. The process
would generate a local temperature difference that would quickly be
equalized by any reasonable level of heat transfer.

    The first theoretical objection to this type of perpetual motion
machine that the author has found in literature is that it cannot work
because it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This is hardly a valid
objection since the arrangement is specifically designed to bypass the
limitations of that law. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a statistical
law and it is not binding on nanomachinery since such mechanisms deal with
molecules on an individual basis and the pores of the assumed diffusion
membranes certainly qualify as nanomechanisms. (The Second Law of
Thermodynamics, or the Law of Entropy increase if you prefer, does apply to
the membrane itself and to the gas in the chambers since they involve large
numbers of randomly interacting
particles. It does not apply to the pores of the diffusion mechanism. Each
pore is an independently acting nanomechanism and, as such, is not bound by
the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy). The only other theoretical
objection that the author has found was provided in another book by Dr.
Feynmann in which he described a nanomechanism consisting of a riverboat
type of paddle wheel mounted on a shaft inside a cylinder containing a
fluid. The paddle wheel was bombarded by the random motion of the molecules
of the fluid and caused the shaft undergo a random rotary oscillation. To
convert this motion to a useful output, an EXTERNAL one-way ratchet was
attached to the shaft. Dr. Feynmann then demonstrated that the device would
not work because the motion of the ratchet pawl would generate enough heat
so that the resultant thermal molecular motion of the ratchet and pawl would
make the pawl bounce sufficiently to render the one way mechanism
inoperative.

    From the description provided, it is obvious that, while Dr. Feynmann
is undoubtedly an excellent theoretical physicist, he is not as effective as
a design engineer. Relocating the ratchet mechanism to the interior of the
fluid chamber must cool it close to the temperature of the fluid and dampen
its bounce. As a result, Dr. Feynmann's objections would vanish. When the
model is modified, Dr. Feynmann probably would be forced to agree, that
unless another objection could devised, the concept should represent a
physically realizable device that would by-pass the Second Law of
Thermodynamics. A theoretical demonstration that the mechanism suggested by
the author cannot work requires a proof that the permeability of all
possible diffusion membranes must be the same in both directions. Deriving
such a proof may be particularly difficult because the pores of the required
membrane are allowed to extract energy from the molecules that pass though
them. CONSIDERABLE EFFORT IS JUSTIFIED IN DEVELOPING SUCH A PROOF. IF THAT
PROOF CANNOT FOUND, THE POSSIBILITY OF BUILDING A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE
OF THE SECOND KIND IS NOT FOOLISH AND AN ALL OUT EFFORT TO DEMONSTRATE IT IS
JUSTIFIED. IF IT CAN BE BUILT, SOCIETY WOULD HAVE AN INEXHAUSTIBLE AND
POLLUTION FREE SOURCE OF ENERGY THAT PROBABLY COULD BE SIZED FOR THE
SMALLEST HOMES AND THE LARGEST FACTORIES.

    Please do not bombard the writer with the foolish objection that the
proposed mechanism can't work because it would violate the Second Law of
Thermodynamics, it is designed to do just that, and please don't raise the
objection that it can't work because the overall entropy of the Universe can
never be decreased. In this regard, the proposed mechanism is entropy
neutral.

    The source material for this posting may be found in
http://einsteinhoax.com/hoax.htm (1997); http://einsteinhoax.com/gravity.htm 
(1987); and http://einsteinhoax.com/relcor.htm (1997). EVERYTHING WHICH WE
ACCEPT AS TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS
TRUE, IT MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT MUST BE
MATHEMATICALLY VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS
REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM
THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD CLASS STATUS.

    All of the Newsposts made by this site may be viewed at the
http://einsteinhoax.com/postinglog.htm.

    Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not monitored on
a regular basis. Objective responses will be treated with the same courtesy
as they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of our parts,
please do not raise objections that are not related to material that you
have read at the Website. This posting is merely a summary.

    E-mail:- einsteinhoax@isp.com. If you wish a reply, be sure that your
mail reception is not blocked.

    The material at the Website has been posted continuously for over 8
years. In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF THE
MATERIAL PRESENTED. There have only been hand waving arguments by
individuals who have mindlessly accepted the prevailing wisdom without
questioning it. If anyone provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be
objectively answered, the material at the Website will be withdrawn.
Challenges to date have revealed only the responder's inadequacy with one
exception for which a correction was provided.
Darwin123 - 30 Aug 2008 19:03 GMT
> "Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?"
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> chambers that can be exploited to produce useful work in a direct violation
> of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
    Many years ago, in Scientific American, I saw an analysis of the
Maxwell Demon that seemed to prove it couldn't violate the Second Law.
What the "proof" entailed was the fact the "demon" would have to
measure the velocity of the molecule in order to determine velocity
and speed. The demon has to do this remotely, so he has to use some
wave that travels through a vacuum. The assumption was that this
excitation whatever it was has to be quantized in units of the Planck
constant according to the laws of quantum mechanics. The author
assumed light waves, but the proof would work for any electromagnetic
wave and even for gravitational waves.
      The quantization of the excitation causes the uncertainty
relation to apply. One can not know the exact velocity of the molecule
without belting it with a photon of high energy. The energy of the
photon is basically the uncertainty of the energy of the molecule. One
can determine the exact time the molecule was probed only by using a
photon with a minimum energy of Planck's constant divided by the
tolerance for uncertainty in energy. Similiarly, to determine the
position one has to use a photon with a minimum momentum of Planck's
constant divided by the tolerance of uncertainty in position.
      The result is that this demon, whether intelligent or no, has
to probe the molecule with so much force that it destroys the original
velocity. The molecule can absorb the entire photon and increase the
kinetic energy, or even lose energy to this huge photon by stimulated
emission of another photon.
   The result is that the Maxwell demon has no way to know with
suitable precision how fast the molecule is moving. By probing a
suitable molecule for passage, the demon makes the molecule
unsuitable. Therefore, it is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle that
enforces the Second Law of thermodynamics.
    Nonequilibrium systems are too fragile in a quantum mechanical
universe. When you build a second-order Perpetual Motion machine
(i.e., beat the Second Law), you make a nonequilibrium system. Then,
the quantization of the sensors in the machine itself destroy the
nonequilibrium system.
    I found this interesting because the third law of quantum
mechanics also is maintained by a quantum mechanical principle. You
can't go below absolute zero because there always has to be a ground
state wave function. You can't go below ground state because of
quantum mechanics.
    So the laws of thermodynamics, even the "classical ones," seem to
have quantum mechanics as their foundation.
...
>      There is a modification to the concept of Maxwell's Demon for which
> there is, at least as yet, no valid theoretical objection. Suppose that the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> average room temperature velocity of about 1300 feet per second to a much
> lower exit velocity.
   The "diffusion membrane" is not a continuous substance ruled by
quantum mechanics. The diffusion membrane is made of its own
molecules, interacting with the gas via quantized electromagnetic
fields. The atoms in the membrane have to "know" on which side the
diffusing molecule comes from, and has to estimate a speed for that
molecule.
     The chemical properties of the diffusing membrane come from the
quantum dynamics of the atoms that make it. The molecules in the
membrane vibrate in both acoustical and optical modes. However, these
vibrations are quantized. There may be electromagnetic fields in these
membrane molecules. These will be quantized. If the membrane uses any
of these excitations to determine the velocity of the diffusing
molecule, the same argument applies. The membrane can't know the
velocity of the molecule due to the uncertainty relationships.
Therefore, the permeability can't be the same on both sides.
      The argument applies the other way, too. If you use the energy
of the diffusing molecules to power this asymmetric membrane, then the
exchange of energy has to be quantized. So the membrane has to be
drawing chunks of energy from the gas, causing an uncertainty in the
velocity of the gas. So it can't really act as a "gatekeeper" from the
gas.
   If energy is pumped in from outside the membrane and gass system,
the situation changes. However, then you haven't beaten the 2nd law
either.
> If the permeability of the membrane is different on each side of the
     How is a diode as a semipermeable membrane? I knew in graduate
school another student who made such a system is object of study. He
really thought he was going to beat the 2nd law! However, what he
found was that the shot noise (i.e., quantum noise) from the diode
made it inefficient. He completed his thesis showing that wasn't a way
of beating the 2nd law.
>The lower velocity of the gas leaving the membrane
> means that side B is colder than the ambient temperature. The loss of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the gas on both sides of the membrane and of the membrane itself must remain
> close to the temperature of the environment.
    However, the energy difference between the two sides of the
membrane don't have to be the same. Quantization again. Because there
is quantization, it may be impossible to exactly balance the energy on
both sides. So one would have "tunneling" between the two states. The
excess of energy would randomly flip from one side to the other. Even
when the "temperature" is the same on both sides.
    Always remember. The ground state of a system is never zero
energy.

>As a result, the pressure in
> chamber B will be higher than the pressure in chamber A. That difference in
> pressure can be used to operate a turbine and provide useful output power.
    The turbine will be knocked in the opposite direction by random
fluctuations. If your turbine is very massive, the molecule will
bounce back from the turbine and go back through the permeable
membrane. By conservation of energy, light particles bounce off
stationary objects. If your turbine is lose, the turbine will be
knocked back and forth.
> As the gas flowing through the turbine produces output power, the chambers
> are cooled below the ambient temperature and energy flows from the
> environment to the chambers to replace the energy delivered by the turbine.
    What ambient temperature? There is only one side of the membrane
or the other. If you mean the temperature is the same on both sides of
the membrane, then you have lost. The energy merely has to randomly
jump across the membrane. Unless you give the atoms a way to "know"
the energy of the molecule, the membrane won't discriminate.
> The arrangement would extract useful energy from its environment in direct
> contradiction to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. See
> http://einsteinhoax.com/cf153.gif.
     Is this post a hoax, then?

>      Conceptually, the membrane might be constructed with pores that were
> covered by pring-loaded trapdoors, as shown in
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> objection since the arrangement is specifically designed to bypass the
> limitations of that law.
    What you said is logically true. One can't use the Second Law to
prove itself. However, you appear to have forgotten the second
objection whatever it was.
> The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a statistical
> law and it is not binding on nanomachinery since such mechanisms deal with
> molecules on an individual basis and the pores of the assumed diffusion
> membranes certainly qualify as nanomechanisms.
   Which still need a way to determine the velocity of a molecule.
Remember, phonons are quantized. By phonon, I mean any mechanical
oscillation. So the phonon itself has to aborb and emit energy in
packets. So nanomachinery is NOT exempt from the second law. The model
you are using ignores quantization of the trap door motion.
  All motion is quantized. You can't use Newton's Laws on
nanomachinery. You have to analyze these machines either with quantum
mechanics or some classical approximation of quantum mechanics.
Nanomachines DON'T act like macromachines. The length scale of
nanomachines are so small that quantum mechanics starts to apply.
Macromachines seem to be Newtonian because the length scale is too
large for the quantization to matter. Sit down and read the literature
on nanomachines.
       I think the lesson to be learned from this is "Thermodynamics
is not separable from quantum mechanics."
Darwin123 - 30 Aug 2008 19:11 GMT
> "Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?"

   Many years ago, in Scientific American, I saw an analysis of the
Maxwell Demon that seemed to prove it couldn't violate the Second Law.
What the "proof" entailed was the fact the "demon" would have to
measure the velocity of the molecule in order to determine velocity
and speed. The demon has to do this remotely, so he has to use some
wave that travels through a vacuum. The assumption was that this
excitation whatever it was has to be quantized in units of the Planck
constant according to the laws of quantum mechanics. The author
assumed light waves, but the proof would work for any electromagnetic
wave and even for gravitational waves.
      The quantization of the excitation causes the uncertainty
relation to apply. One can not know the exact velocity of the molecule
without belting it with a photon of high energy. The energy of the
photon is basically the uncertainty of the energy of the molecule. One
can determine the exact time the molecule was probed only by using a
photon with a minimum energy of Planck's constant divided by the
tolerance for uncertainty in energy. Similiarly, to determine the
position one has to use a photon with a minimum momentum of Planck's
constant divided by the tolerance of uncertainty in position.
      The result is that this demon, whether intelligent or no, has
to probe the molecule with so much force that it destroys the original
velocity. The molecule can absorb the entire photon and increase the
kinetic energy, or even lose energy to this huge photon by stimulated
emission of another photon.
   The result is that the Maxwell demon has no way to know with
suitable precision how fast the molecule is moving. By probing a
suitable molecule for passage, the demon makes the molecule
unsuitable. Therefore, it is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle that
enforces the Second Law of thermodynamics.
    Nonequilibrium systems are too fragile in a quantum mechanical
universe. When you build a second-order Perpetual Motion machine
(i.e., beat the Second Law), you make a nonequilibrium system. Then,
the quantization of the sensors in the machine itself destroy the
nonequilibrium system.
    I found this interesting because the third law of quantum
mechanics also is maintained by a quantum mechanical principle. You
can't go below absolute zero because there always has to be a ground
state wave function. You can't go below ground state because of
quantum mechanics.
    So the laws of thermodynamics, even the "classical ones," seem to
have quantum mechanics as their foundation.
...
>      There is a modification to the concept of Maxwell's Demon for which
> there is, at least as yet, no valid theoretical objection. Suppose that the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> average room temperature velocity of about 1300 feet per second to a much
> lower exit velocity.

   The "diffusion membrane" is not a continuous substance ruled by
Newtonian mechanics. The diffusion membrane is made of its own
molecules, interacting with the gas via quantized electromagnetic
fields. The atoms in the membrane have to "know" on which side the
diffusing molecule comes from, and has to estimate a speed for that
molecule.
     The chemical properties of the diffusing membrane come from the
quantum dynamics of the atoms that make it. The molecules in the
membrane vibrate in both acoustical and optical modes. However, these
vibrations are quantized. There may be electromagnetic fields in these
membrane molecules. These will be quantized. If the membrane uses any
of these excitations to determine the velocity of the diffusing
molecule, the same argument applies. The membrane can't know the
velocity of the molecule due to the uncertainty relationships.
Therefore, the permeability can't be the same on both sides.
      The argument applies the other way, too. If you use the energy
of the diffusing molecules to power this asymmetric membrane, then the
exchange of energy has to be quantized. So the membrane has to be
drawing chunks of energy from the gas, causing an uncertainty in the
velocity of the gas. So it can't really act as a "gatekeeper" from the
gas.
   If energy is pumped in from outside the membrane and gass system,
the situation changes. However, then you haven't beaten the 2nd law
either.
> If the permeability of the membrane is different on each side of the
     Is a diode as a semipermeable membrane? I knew in graduate
school another student who made such a system is object of study. He
really thought he was going to beat the 2nd law! However, what he
found was that the shot noise (i.e., quantum noise) from the diode
made it inefficient. He completed his thesis showing that wasn't a way
of beating the 2nd law.
>The lower velocity of the gas leaving the membrane
> means that side B is colder than the ambient temperature. The     loss of  kinetic energy by the molecules as they pass though membrane provides the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the gas on both sides of the membrane and of the membrane itself must remain
> close to the temperature of the environment.

    However, the energy difference between the two sides of the
membrane don't have to be the same. Quantization again. Because there
is quantization, it may be impossible to exactly balance the energy on
both sides. So one would have "tunneling" between the two states. The
excess of energy would randomly flip from one side to the other. Even
when the "temperature" is the same on both sides.
    Always remember. The ground state of a system is never zero
energy.

>As a result, the pressure in
> chamber B will be higher than the pressure in chamber A. That difference in
> pressure can be used to operate a turbine and provide useful output power.

    The turbine will be knocked in the opposite direction by random
fluctuations. If your turbine is very massive, the molecule will
bounce back from the turbine and go back through the permeable
membrane. By conservation of energy, light particles bounce off
stationary objects. If your turbine is lose, the turbine will be
knocked back and forth.
> As the gas flowing through the turbine produces output power, the chambers
> are cooled below the ambient temperature and energy flows from the
> environment to the chambers to replace the energy delivered by the turbine.

    What ambient temperature? There is only one side of the membrane
or the other. If you mean the temperature is the same on both sides of
the membrane, then you have lost. The energy merely has to randomly
jump across the membrane. Unless you give the atoms a way to "know"
the energy of the molecule, the membrane won't discriminate.
> The arrangement would extract useful energy from its environment in direct
> contradiction to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. See
> http://einsteinhoax.com/cf153.gif.

     Is this post a hoax, then?

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

>      Conceptually, the membrane might be constructed with pores that were
> covered by pring-loaded trapdoors, as shown in
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> would generate a local temperature difference that would quickly be
> equalized by any reasonable level of heat transfer.

>      The first theoretical objection to this type of perpetual motion
> machine that the author has found in literature is that it cannot work
> because it violates the Second Law of

...
Darwin123 - 30 Aug 2008 20:50 GMT
> "Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?"
>The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a statistical
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> numbers of randomly interacting
> particles. It does not apply to the pores of the diffusion mechanism.
   You can not know that for sure. This is what you are trying to
prove. In order prove that the pores don't obey the Second Law of
Thermodynamics, you have to analyze the interaction of molecules with
these gases on an appropriate scale. You can't ignore the internal
dynamics of the atoms on the pore, either.
  Note: If your pore size is small, you have to take into account
quantum mechanics. A small pore will diffract matter waves. So you
can't ignore quantum mechanics.
    For example, the pore represents a maximum uncertainty in
position. Therefore, there is a minimum uncertainty in linear momentum
associated with it. By allowing the molecule to pass "randomly"
through a small pore, you create a diffraction pattern with the matter
wave of the molecule. Thus you add an unknown amount of momentum to
the associated molecule. The pore can't "know" from which side the
membrane the molecule comes if the pore itself adds an unknown amount
of momentum. A small pore will completely randomize the direction the
molecule is heading.

>Each pore is an independently acting nanomechanism and, as such, is not bound by
> the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy).
     The pores can't be acting independently because they create
diffraction patterns. Just as two slits form a diffraction pattern, or
even one wide slit forms a diffraction patter, there will be a
diffraction pattern formed by a collection of pores. Diffraction
patterns are not independent of the nanomechanism. If one of the pores
closes, that automatically changes the diffraction pattern caused by
the entire membrane with the pores. So your assumption of independence
doesn't apply for a set of pores.
   Remember the uncertainty principle. Nanomachinery may be
independent of the Second Law as you say. I don't believe it, but
maybe it is. However, nanomachinery is not independent of quantum
mechanics.
>The only other theoretical
> objection that the author has found was provided in another book by Dr.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> fluid chamber must cool it close to the temperature of the fluid and dampen
> its bounce.
    I don't see why the ratchet mechanism will lose it's bounce at
cold temperatures. The ratchet only knows the impact of the molecules
hitting it. It can't know how cold the environment any other way.
Unless the ratchet had its own light source, and could thus "view" the
molecules around it, it would not know the temperature of the
surrounding environment. If it uses passive IR to measure the
temperature, it has to emit photons into its environment which will
result in heating up the environment. This idea that the material of
the ratchet will somehow "freeze" violates the initial assumption of
the device. The ratchet has to behave based purely on the velocity of
the molecules. It can't "magically" interact with an undefined
temperature.

>As a result, Dr. Feynmann's objections would vanish. When the
> model is modified, Dr. Feynmann probably would be forced to agree, that
> unless another objection could devised, the concept should represent a
> physically realizable device that would by-pass the Second Law of
> Thermodynamics.
    Feynmann made mistakes, but I don't this would be one of them.
Feynmann really knew quantum mecahnics. If you told him that the
ratchet somehow wasn't as bouncy as it was before, he would
automatically ask WHY it isn't as bouncy as before. The next step
would be an analysis of the internal structure of the ratchet because
you gave him no choice. If the ratchet responds to temperature, it
must have a complex internal structure, Then, the next step would be
how quantum mechanics affects the internal structure of the ratchet.
Then both you and him would see your argument falls apart.
    The ratchet isn't physically realizable because in order to
change its "bounciness", it has to exchange energy with the diffusing
molecules. Quantum mechanics places a lower limit on the exchange of
energy.
> A theoretical demonstration that the mechanism suggested by
> the author cannot work requires a proof that the permeability of all
> possible diffusion membranes must be the same in both directions.
    No. The wrong way around. Your proof that a nanomechanism doesn't
obey the Second Law of Thermodynamics requires a proof that the
permeability isn't the same in both directions. There is no proof that
small pores and nanomechanisms don't interact with their environment
in such a way as to frustrate your planes. You have to, starting with
quantum mechanics and modeling all the significant interactions, show
that your mechanism can preferentially diffuse molecules without
interacting in any other way with those molecules.
   Again, the bottom line is quantum mechanics. Chemistry is linked
to quantum mechanics. Thermodynamics is used very often as an
alternative to detailed quantum theory. If you want to show a way of
violating thermodynanics, you have to show that thermodynamics
violates quantum mechanics.
>Deriving
> such a proof may be particularly difficult because the pores of the required
> membrane are allowed to extract energy from the molecules that pass though
> them.
    In quantized steps.
    Let me put it this way. Unless you show me how to build that
trapdoor in chemical terms, I have no way to build it. It is possible
that no such trapdoor can be built. There are no rigid bodies in
quantum mechanics, and no continuum materials. Therefore, the claim
will be made that such a trap door was impossible to begin with. The
burden of proof is with you, or with the guy who builds nanodevices.
   Hint: your trapdoor, even if it is a nanomechanism, has to be made
of atoms. These atoms have to stick together in a certain way.
>CONSIDERABLE EFFORT IS JUSTIFIED IN DEVELOPING SUCH A PROOF. IF THAT
> PROOF CANNOT FOUND, THE POSSIBILITY OF BUILDING A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE
> OF THE SECOND KIND IS NOT FOOLISH AND AN ALL OUT EFFORT TO DEMONSTRATE IT IS
> JUSTIFIED.
   You know, I agree with this. I am a gung ho researcher, willing to
spend every cent of the taxpayers money on pie in the sky research.
However, I don't know how I would justify this to a Congressman. I
mean, I don't really have a quantum mechanical description of such a
trapdoor. If I give a presentation to the President on smart nanodoors
that can sense molecular velocity at a distance, I am likely to giggle
at the wrong time.
    But I do think such research is necessary. We may actually find
pie in the sky. If not, the country and maybe the world is dead.

>IF IT CAN BE BUILT,...
   The usual way to calculate permeability uses thermodynamics.
However, you know that the chemical bonds in a material determine the
permeability. Unless you give me a model where the permeability is
calculated through quantum mechanics, and show me these results, I
have no reason to distrust thermodynamics.
   So read up on matter waves and analyze those pores. If you can
show such a mechanism doesn't violate quantum mechanics, some one will
hand you the money. I believe it would be worth it. Provided you did a
quantum mechanical analysis.
    I don't think you will try, though.
 
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