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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / December 2004What gives an object its identity
> I'll ask you or pietanza, either will do: What gives an object its > verifiable identity to a human? there is no answer to this, because to verify a identity of a given object requires case by case a not identifiable set of tools and a full knowledge of the mind of the observer, that the task is impossible a priori. The question is solved easily by a given observer and a given object trough a interactive feed backed process that leads the observer to a progressive acquisition of a mental representation of the object functional to the his "necessities". best regards beda pietanza > > I'll ask you or pietanza, either will do: What gives an object its > > verifiable identity to a human? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > acquisition of a mental representation of the object functional to the his > "necessities". Is identity something that objectively belongs to every subset of the universe, or is it a free creation of the human mind awarded to some of the subsets only for its subjective expedience to human conceptualization? Patrick > Is identity something that objectively belongs to every subset of the > universe, or is it a free creation of the human mind awarded to some of > the subsets only for its subjective expedience to human > conceptualization? The human mind is the human brain in operation. Since the brain is a physical thing, how free is it in its actions. The mushy goo in between our ears is subject to the same physical laws as sunlight and snowfall. Thought is ions going through a membrane. Bob Kolker > > Is identity something that objectively belongs to every subset of the > > universe, or is it a free creation of the human mind awarded to some of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Bob Kolker I'll rephrase: Either it is or it not the case that every subset of the universe is an object. If it's the case that some subsets of the universe are but some subsets of the universe are not objects, then how do we account for this? Patrick > I'll rephrase: Either it is or it not the case that every subset of the > universe is an object. If it's the case that some subsets of the > universe are but some subsets of the universe are not objects, then how > do we account for this? The subsets we perceive are objects (assuming that we are not hallucinating). The way we know there is stuff Out There is through our sense. There is nothing in the intellect that was not first in the senses. Bob Kolker > > I'll rephrase: Either it is or it not the case that every subset of the > > universe is an object. If it's the case that some subsets of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bob Kolker I am assuming the existence of material stuff in the universe! I am questioning the tacit assumption that ONLY certain subsets of that universe deserve to be called "objects." That is, that only certain subsets of the universe have the property of "indentity." Are you saying that only those subsets of the universe which we humans perceive to be "objects" are objects? If so, is that because, objectiveness is purely subjective or because humans are magically made to see the "real objects" in the universe (which all the realists here believe)? You did not answer my question how it is that not every subset of the universe is an object. Why isn't it? Patrick > > > I'll rephrase: Either it is or it not the case that every subset of > the [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > You did not answer my question how it is that not every subset of the > universe is an object. Why isn't it? There is not a definite answer to that as you pretend. To distinguish a object is a aleatory task. Every one solve the task paying tolls to subjectivity and convenience and the choice being filtered afterwards by necessity (and collectively by conventions). best regards beda pietanza > <reany@asu.edu> ha scritto nel messaggio [snip] > > You did not answer my question how it is that not every subset of the > > universe is an object. Why isn't it? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > tolls to subjectivity and convenience and the choice being filtered > afterwards by necessity (and collectively by conventions). I don't understand what you said. In any case, luck aside in the "search for objects," either every subset of the universe is an object or it isn't? If it isn't, why isn't it? Who decides? Is this all about subjective intuition? Patrick Patrick asks, "Is this all about subjective intuition?" He is referring to how we go about distinguishing various subsets of objects. Ans. No it is not about "subjective intuition" and what is or is not an objective subset. It is about making theories that work. I hope that someday Patrick will become a real Instrumentalist. |
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