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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / March 2005What other distortions need be attributed?
This is a straightforward question on relativity rudiments. I profess my ignorance of the exact answer. BACKGROUND: If my space ship is sitting still in space and another craft/frame is in inertial motion, then I must ascribe/attribute three distinct distortions to his frame: length contraction, time dilation and clock dissynchronicity. That last distortion is of course only pertinent to clocks separated along an elongated moving frame... and most universities would term it "The Relativity of Simultaneity" instead of what I just termed it. QUESTION: I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame is out there in space, motionless WRT me, many millions of miles away from mine (or any) gravitational source. So his clock indisputably runs fast, as compared to my own. What about other distortions that must be attributed to that remote spacebound frame: a length distortion?? a clock dissycnhronicity?? (assuming his is an elongated frame with clocks separated along that radial line from the CtrOfGrav, through me, to them) I have tried to here outline the very most simplest case. > This is a straightforward question on relativity rudiments. > I profess my ignorance of the exact answer. > > BACKGROUND: > If my space ship is sitting still in space What do you mean by sitting still in space? Motion is with respect to a coordinate system. > and another craft/frame is in inertial motion, then I must ascribe/attribute three distinct distortions to > his frame: length contraction, time dilation and clock dissynchronicity. > That last distortion is of course only pertinent to clocks separated along [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I have tried to here outline the very most simplest case. Sure space is curved by gravity as well as time (you will find lengths a bit longer) - that is why it is space-time that is curved - but for gravitational fields we are usually have experience with the effect on time is much more pronounced. Bill > I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame is out > there in space, motionless WRT me, many millions of miles away from mine (or > any) gravitational source. So his clock indisputably runs fast, as compared > to my own. What about other distortions that must be attributed to that > remote spacebound frame: a length distortion?? a clock dissycnhronicity?? I think you will be much less confused if you think in terms of experiments and their outcomes, rather than in terms of intrinsic properties whose physical meaning is unclear. You say that his clock runs faster than yours; what experiment does that correspond to? Probably one like this: he fires a laser pulse at you once per second, and you fire a pulse at him once per second. You receive more than one of his pulses per second, and he receives less than one of yours per second. This is indeed what happens; you can work through the equations and show that it's true, and there are various ways of visualizing why it's true, and similar experiments in real life appear to confirm the prediction. Then you ask about length contraction and desynchronization. What experiments would those correspond to? -- Ben > > I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame is out > > there in space, motionless WRT me, many millions of miles away from mine (or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- Ben Thanks for the reply, Ben, but I am not satisfied. There IS a vital reason why I ask this question in this particular way, and it is this. Because of the THREE distinct (SR) distortions ascribed to a relatively moving inertial frame, the speed of a light pulse will wind up being *assessed* as c by all (inertial) observers. This would not work out mathematically if only one or two of those distortions were ascribed, but only when all three are ciphered together does the unifrmity of lightspeed result, from all inertial vantages. So, my question about gravitation, in a case where there is no relative motion between observer and observed, is intended to glean how it becomes mathematically possible for me, sitting on the large gravitational body, and another spatially far-removed observer -- for us to BOTH assess a random light pulse to be travelling at the uniform speed, c, unless there are *additional* distortions besides the simple well-known clockRATE distortion of a gravitational potential difference. -- BB > > > I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame is > out [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > -- BB I'm still hoping someone will come forward with a substantive, the correct answer. > > > > I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame > is [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > I'm still hoping someone will come forward with a substantive, the correct > answer. I assume your clocks are based on an oscillating mass because you say the one near a large mass runs slower. The correct answer is: Clocks don't measure or establish time, they simulate it's passage. Hope that helps. ;-) Sue... > > > > > I am sitting on a large gravitational body and another craft or frame > > is [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Sue... No Sue, it doesn't help. I'm looking for the correct answer based on *relativity*, as opposed to anti-relativism. The clock near the large mass runs *relatively* slower, as compared to the one far afield. So what other distortions would need be ascribed in order to make the assessment of the speed of a random light pulse work out arithmetically to equal c, per either observer? (likened to SR distortions which act in unison to make lightspeed uniform). Study near fields for Maxwell's equations and learn how it actually works instead of fooling with goofy clocks. Then you can resolve both postulats of SR and your twins will always age the same. Sue... |
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