Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Biology
BiologyBotanyMicrobiologyEntomologyEvolutionPaleontology
Chemistry
General ChemistryAnalytical ChemistryElectrochemistryOrganic Synthesis
Earth Science
GeologyMineralogyOceanographyMeteorologyEarthquakes
Physics
General PhysicsResearchRelativityParticle PhysicsElectromagnetismFusionOpticsAcousticsNew Theories

Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / July 2005



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

"The Lorentz Transformation for Velocity"

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Notron - 26 Jul 2005 15:16 GMT
"The Lorentz Transformation for Velocity"

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppositions from
mediocre minds." - A. Einstein

    It is recognized that Special Relativity provides the Lorentz
Transformations for Length and Time and Mass between reference frames having
a
relative velocity. What is too often not recognized that, in so doing, it
provides the transformations for all other physical quantities! These
remaining
transformations may be determined by applying the conventional Lorentz
Transformations to accepted physical equations.

    Since a velocity is equal to a length divided by the time
required to traverse that length, the Lorentz Transformation for Velocity
must
equal the Lorentz Transformation for Length [1/(1-V^2/C^2)^0.5] divided by
the
Lorentz Transformation for Time [(1-V^2/C^2)^0.5]. The Lorentz
Transformation
for Velocity is therefore equal to 1/(1-V^2/C^2). (As incredible as it may
seem,
the writer has received a communication from an individual who asserts that
a
Lorentz Transformation for Velocity cannot be determined by dividing the
Lorentz
Transformation for Length divided by the Lorentz Transformation for Time
even
though velocity is defined as length divided by time! I suspect that this
individual is a PhD who has a vested interest in maintaining the
intellectual
status quo. If he is a physicist he is in the wrong line of work, I
understand
that Walmart is hiring.)

    This transformation yields a conclusion which is in conflict
with the current understanding of Special Relativity. Present dogma asserts
that
the velocity of light is the same in all velocity reference frames. If one
considers two reference frames, A and B, moving at a relativity velocity V
with
respect to each other, one finds that an observer in A measures the velocity
of
light in his own reference frame as its conventional value of C and the
velocity
of light in B as having been reduced by the Lorentz Transformation for
Velocity.
Similarly, an observer in B measures the velocity of light in his own
reference
frame as C and the velocity of light in A as having been reduced by the
Lorentz
Transformation for velocity. While superficially this may seem to be a
contradiction, the difficulty vanishes when one factors in the effects of
the
limit on the velocity of information transfer imposed by the velocity of
light.

    We are forced to accept the conclusion, however, that the
velocity of light changes as a result of a change in velocity and that this
change in velocity is concealed by a change in the size of the units of
measurement for velocity (length/time) making it appear that the velocity of
light is the same in both reference frames. In terms of unchanging units of
measurement, the velocity of light does differ between reference frames
which
differ in velocity, it only appears to be unchanged when it is measured
within
each reference frame. It may be stated, therefore, that Special Relativity
requires that the velocity of light be a "constant" but cannot be constant
between reference frames having a relative velocity. This conclusion is
consistent with the Lorentz Transformation Aether Theory which asserts that
our
velocity with respect to the Aether is indeterminate.

    However, one may derive more information from Special
Relativity. Consider two velocity reference frames, for example Earth and
Mars.
A rocket is located on Earth and three identical clocks are in use. One
clock is
locate on Earth, one is located in the rocket, and the third clock is
located on
Mars. The observer on Earth and the observer in the rocket report that their
clocks run at the same speed and that the clock on Mars runs slower due to
the
relative velocity between the two locations. The observer on Mars reports
that
the clocks on the Earth and on the rocket run slower than his clock.

    After the readings have been taken, the rocket takes off and
travels to Mars and stops there. The observer on Earth notes that the speed
of
the clock on the rocket has slowed to the speed of the clock on Mars while
the
observer on Mars notes that the speed of the clock on the rocket has
increased
to match the speed of his own clock which is faster than the speed of the
clock
on the Earth. The observer on the rocket does not notice a change in the
speed
of his clock, but since he is familiar with Special Relativity knows that
the
speed of his clock has changed as a result of his observed change in
velocity
but that he cannot observe that change in the speed of his clock. He
observes
that the change in velocity of his rocket has occurred and that the speed of
the
clock on the Earth has appeared to slow and the speed of the clock on Mars
has
appeared to increase. This observation does not bother him or the other
observers since all are familiar with Special Relativity.

    Consider what this thought experiment has shown. It has shown
that not only is it impossible to measure our velocity with respect to the
Aether and hence it is impossible to assert that the Aether does not exist,
It
has also shown that Special Relativity requires that there be an absolute
velocity reference frame (i.e.- the Aether). In the Rocket Experiment all
three
observers report that the speed of the clock has changed as a result of the
change in the rockets velocity. The observer on Earth asserts that the speed
of
the clock on the rocket has slowed, the observer on Mars asserts that the
speed
of the clock on the rocket has increased, and the observer on the rocket
asserts
that the speed of his clock has changed but that he cannot observe that
change.
There is one item of information that all three observers agree on. The
speed of
the clock on the rocket changed as a result of the change in the rocket's
velocity.

    One event, the change in speed of the rocket, has caused the
speed of the clock on the rocket to change. Since there was only one causal
event, there can only be one result, the speed of the clock must actually
increase or decrease, it cannot do both! In order for that conclusion to be
true, there must be an absolute reference frame for velocity. The classical
Aether, which cannot be proven not to exist, must exist!

    Two objections have been raised to this argument. The first is
that it involves acceleration and Special relativity does not include the
effect
of acceleration. This argument is meaningless since no acceleration occurred
when observations were being made. The second argument involves the speed of
communication between the Earth and Mars. This is a foolish argument since
the
observations were all made prior to the start and after the finish of the
experiment. The observers could have communicated by pony express without
affecting the conclusions. NOY ONLY DID SPECIAL RELATIVITY NOT ELIMINATE THE
CLASSICAL AETHER, IT REQUIRES THAT THE CLASSICAL AETHER EXIST!

    The source material for this posting may be found in
http://einsteinhoax/hoax.htm ("The Einstein Hoax" {1997});
http://einsteinhoax/gravity.htm; ("Gravity" {1987}); and
http://einsteinhoax/relcor.htm ("Corrections to Special Relativity" {1997}).
EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE
WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND
IT MUST BE MATHEMATICALLY VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS
REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM
THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD CLASS STATUS.

    All of the Newsposts made by this site may be viewed at
http://einsteinhoax.com/postinglog.htm .

    Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not
monitored on a regular basis. Objective responses will be treated with the
same
courtesy as they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of
our
parts, please do not raise objections that are not related to material that
you
have read at the Website. This posting is merely a summary.

    E-mail:- einsteinhoax@isp.com

    The material at the Website has been posted continuously for
over 5 years. In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF
THE
MATERIAL PRESENTED. There have only been hand waving arguments by
individuals
who have mindlessly accepted the prevailing wisdom without questioning it.
If
anyone provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be objectively answered,
the
material at the Website will be withdrawn. Challenges to date have revealed
only
the responder's inadequacy with one exception for which a correction was
provided.
vergon_enterprises@highstream.net - 28 Jul 2005 01:25 GMT
               THE  DUAL  VELOCITIES  OF SPECIAL RELATIVITY

                             By  Vertner Vergon

At the outset it would be well to quote Nick Herbert from his book,
Quantum Reality (highly recommended). In one sentence he put forth the
key that everyone considering relativity should constantly keep in mind
for it would prevent the most common misconceptions in understanding
and applying the theory. The sentence:

(emphasis added)

"In Einstein's new vision, MEASUREMENTS  of length and time are not
absolute but depend on the observers velocity."

How adroit and succinct. Notice Herbert did not say 'length and time
are not absolute'-but the "measurements of length and time are
not absolute".

The meaning clearly is that mass (for example) is velocity invariant-
but the measurements are not. Of course that leaves us with the problem
of ascertaining the cause of the apparently false measurement which is
somehow correct. (Einstein's side-stepping solution was to recommend
that the variation in mass be avoided and momentum used instead.
However, that only shifted the problem.)

The limiting velocity of light is c. Thus the limit of velocity for
anything observed utilizing light is c.

Light causes two kinds of aberrations. One, angular displacement --
two, longitudinal displacement ( more exactly, the component of radial
velocity displacement).

The first is caused by refraction -- the fish in the pond isn't where
we see it. The image suffers angular displacement.

The second is caused by the constant -- and limited -- velocity, c.
The observed velocity can be no faster than the messenger.
In observing a rod (longitudinal length) it seems  to contract.
This is our longitudinal displacement.

It should be stressed that the rod, in its own coordinate system does
not contract (proper length) but the "observation" of it does.

Next, let us consider that the length of a rod is also a distance -
and distance per unit of time is velocity.

Thus we can say that if the observation of length contracts so does the
observation of velocity.

It should be noted that as we have two lengths - the proper and the
observed, we also have two velocities, the proper and the observed.

The proper velocity is the Newtonian velocity, and the observed
velocity  is the relativistic velocity.

The result is -- as the Newtonian velocity goes to infinity, the
observed velocity goes to c.

The conversion utilizes the Lorentz transformation (R) such that
V x R = v (where V is Newtonian velocity and v is relativistic.)

R can be obtained from V by (where c = 1)  sqrt[ 1/ (V^2 + 1) ]

It will be noticed that the parameters (kinetic energy, momentum, and
transit times) of the Newtonian velocities are found in the company of
their corresponding relativistic velocities. That is to say that
whereas  the velocity of light will cause an aberration of length
(velocity) it does not affect the parameters of kinetic energy,
momentum, and proper transit times. Thus they are observed in the
presence of the aberrated (observed) velocity.

The knowledge of this leads to a clarification of relativistic mass and

superluminal velocities.

The latter, of course, are the Newtonian velocities. It will be found
that a Newtonian velocity of 1 (where c = 1) translates to a
relativistic velocity of .7071 c (by  V x R = v). Thus, every Newtonian
velocity greater than  .7071 c  is a superluminal velocity on the
Newtonian scale.

On the relativistic scale there are no superluminal velocities.

As to relativistic mass, it was derived from relativistic momentum:

                                          P = mv/R
Because v has the limit c, the assumption  has always been that that R
applied to m - thus m tended toward infinity as R tended toward zero.
Thus, relativistic mass.

However, the difficulties this created waved a red flag that shouted
this was not so.

The answer, of course, lies in properly applying R to v. Thus, as R
tends to zero, v tends to infinity - which is infinity on the
Newtonian scale.
(R/v = V)

So the proper writing would be  p = mV. However, that is not to say
that  p = mv/R is not correct.
Bill Hobba - 28 Jul 2005 02:01 GMT
>                 THE  DUAL  VELOCITIES  OF SPECIAL RELATIVITY
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> that the variation in mass be avoided and momentum used instead.
> However, that only shifted the problem.)

Nothing in what Herbert said allows you to infer the measurements are false.

> The limiting velocity of light is c. Thus the limit of velocity for
> anything observed utilizing light is c.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> It should be stressed that the rod, in its own coordinate system does
> not contract (proper length) but the "observation" of it does.

What is actually observed is quite complex - it is its measurement that
contracts - not what is observed.

Rest of semantically motivated misconceptions mercifully snipped.

Bill
vergon_enterprises@highstream.net - 28 Jul 2005 19:28 GMT
I didn't say the measurements are false. They ARE different from the
proper quantites, however -- or don't you think so?

As to your second sentence, the observations ARE the measurements. So
what's your point?

Beyond that I see you have no criticisms. I think that's because you do
not have the cognitive ability

Pity.
Bill Hobba - 28 Jul 2005 23:13 GMT
> I didn't say the measurements are false. They ARE different from the
> proper quantites, however -- or don't you think so?

No - they a measurements as well - simply measurements that are invariant.

> As to your second sentence, the observations ARE the measurements. So
> what's your point?

This is getting into real semantic territory but observations in the context
of relativity are usually meant what we would see say with our eyes.  It is
well known that analyzing observing (ie watching it) a fast moving rod is a
rather difficult problem that was not solved until many years after SR was
developed and what actually happens is rather surprising
http://modeling.asu.edu/R&E/SecretsGenius.pdf

'This is called the "Lorentz contraction," because Lorentz wrote down the
formula before Einstein. The very name suggests the confusion of more than a
few physicists who failed to realize that the respective meanings given to
the formula by Lorentz and Einstein were incompatible. For Lorentz the
formula described a physical contraction of the rod in the direction of its
motion, whereas for Einstein it merely related measurements performed in
different ways. However, the scandal was due to physicists who had that much
straight. They told everybody that a physical object would actually appear
to shrink in the direction of its motion. In doing so they confounded the
elementary distinction between " measurement of length" and "visual
appearance." This blunder persisted until it was corrected in 1959 by a
graduate student James Terrell (ibid.). He pointed out that the light in an
instantaneous visual image must have left different parts of the object at
different times, because they are different distances away. He showed that
when this was taken into account, to a first approximation it had the effect
of cancelling the Lorentz contraction so the moving object did not appear
distorted.'

> Beyond that I see you have no criticisms. I think that's because you do
> not have the cognitive ability
>
> Pity.

Well Vernon your ideas have been analyzed many times on
sci.physics.relativity and found wanting.  A simple goggle search will
provide the interested reader with all the information they require to form
an opinion about you.

Bill
Harry - 29 Jul 2005 09:56 GMT
> > I didn't say the measurements are false. They ARE different from the
> > proper quantites, however -- or don't you think so?
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> motion, whereas for Einstein it merely related measurements performed in
> different ways.

As that may easily be misunderstood:

- Lorentz described a physical contraction of the rod in the direction of
its motion *wrt the ether*, while Poincare and Einstein showed that the same
equation is valid to describe observations from any inertial reference
frame. Lorentz agreed with that when it was pointed out to him, there is no
incompatibility in that sense.

- Also, different people understand different things by "physical", and
perhaps everything in nature was "merely measurements" for Einstein (think
of the movie "Matrix")? Einstein 1905:
"Physical Meaning of the Equations Obtained in Respect to Moving Rigid
Bodies and Moving Clocks [...] A rigid body which, measured in a state of
rest, has the form of a sphere, therefore has in a state of motion--viewed
from the stationary system--the form of an ellipsoid "

Cheers,
Harald
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.